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Newbie challenge - removing heads to inspect tappets
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baiones
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 130
Location: Portugal

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just saw this thread now: nice work!!


I've rebuilt my 1.7 engine to, 8 years ago, but it has only done 12k kms since...

It has been sold 7 years ago, and rebought again 4 years ago, and have been parked since i bought it again, has the licence plates were canceled...


It's now fully legal and working, but probably need some kind of maintenance has you have done to yours...

Here is when i first started it 6 months ago, to go to MOT and "re-licence" so it can be fully legal again.

( after oil / filters change, fuel pump replacement, and a cleaning on the sparkplugs. )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPUHF3FUu-4
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Baiones


ALFA ROMEO 33 1.5 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.7 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 s16 QV
ALFA ROMEO Sprint 1.3
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Brit01
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Joined: 24 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks baiones.

Luckily they are not so strick on the legal stuff here, so no MOT's.
Bad for the envirnoment and safety but good for classic car enthisiasts!

Love the induction sound of those carbs on your video.

I've opened my airbox to see how it sounds and performs.

Still having a dilemna what to do with the oil vapor cicuit.

keep it as a vacuum and suck up the sludge or change it and put a filter open to the air.
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come up with another solution keeping the vacuum and retaining an oil catch container with the 2 connectors inside the airbox that will lead to 2 small extra filters to avoid sludge getting into the carbs. Inside the airbox is a strong vacuum and will draw the vapor from the crankcase.
You can see the condenser spiral inside the T connector above the oil catch tank that will lead to the oil filler pipe.

The 4 small tubes will just remain pulling in clean filtered air from one of the trumpet connections.

This way I have reduced the sludge coming into the carbs and also enhanced the filter capacity maintaining the Vacuum to the crankcase.

I like it.


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baiones
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 130
Location: Portugal

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tested that vacuum gadjet?

Does it work fine?



I have a friend who prepares and races Suds, and he keeps telling me that the connection to the oil entrance pipe should be kept because the engine needs some vacuum pressure on the crank case...


I really dont know what to believe, i'm curious about your thing...
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Baiones


ALFA ROMEO 33 1.5 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.7 QV
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have a friend who prepares and races Suds, and he keeps telling me that the connection to the oil entrance pipe should be kept because the engine needs some vacuum pressure on the crank case...



Haven't tested it yet and yes I heard the crank needs the vacuum also to suck out the nasty vapor.

This should work fine as the airbox will have a vacuum (very strong at higher revs) and will suck air out of the crankcase, also hopefully catch the oil particles in the white container before it enters the white cotton filtered outlet inside the airbox.

In theory it should work well retaining the vacuum but improving upon the original design.

Lets see. My car is in pieces right now.
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baiones
Alfa Sprint


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Location: Portugal

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, i understand now, just one thing.

Where are those 4 vacumm pipes geting the air from now?

Do they also have a connection to the air filter box?
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Baiones


ALFA ROMEO 33 1.5 QV
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Where are those 4 vacumm pipes geting the air from now?

Do they also have a connection to the air filter box?


Planning to use the right trumpet inlet - this will lead to a T connection that splits to each carb, so inlet manifold>4-2-1 > trumpet vacuum connection.

Sucking in clean air but still part of the whole circuit.

In theory the same but just avoids the dirt coming in to the inlet manifolds.
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HELPPP

Big end shells issue.

Started to install the pistons today.

Placed the left bank pistons in and proceeded to attach the rod end with new big end shell bearings. Same size 0.20 or something like that.

Made sure they were aligned correctly and proceeded to tighten them just so they the ends fit together (not tight).

BUT I can't turn the crank when the ends are on. Appears the bearings are so tight. I don't know, but they are the same size.

Now have the old ones worn down so much that before I could turn it because they were looser?


Is it normal for the crank to be so tight or have I assembled them incorrectly?

I pressed them into the slots on the rods with ease and they aligned nicely with the ends.



the pistons slide in and out nicely without the ends on though or slightly loosened.


Measurement:
Old shells: 1.87-1.91 mm

New ones: 2.10 mm

Both are stamped with FM -20 (I took the old ones to the alfa supplier and they matched them!!)
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading through my manuals the clearance between the crank journals and rod end bearings should be 0.032 - 0.064mm.

I will measure the journals tomorrow and select the appropriate big end bearings, either standard or 0.010 inch oversize. (NOT 0.020! the inside diameter of the rod ends is 49.46mm with these oversized shells!).


So 66625RA standard or 0.010 depending on the readings I get tomorrow from the crank.
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49.99mm - 50.03mm between all 4 crank journals.

Standard size big end bearings?


Just measured the inside diameter of the old connecting rod half bearings also and the first reading was ~50.00mm.

The smallest oversize shell is 0.010 inch = 0.254mm!
I imagine these will be too tight also.

Am I correct in believing the standard size shell should measure 50.024 - 50.048mm?

0.010 inch oversize would make this 49.77mm - 49.794mm Way too tight for 49.99-50.03mm crank journals
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First photo shows diameter of rod ends with old shells.
Second width of new shell they supplied (too big - 66625RA 0.020)
Third shows width of old shell (oversize 0.020 BUT not for alfa - some unknown stamp and make, so obviously he matched an unknown make to match the cranks).


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Brit01
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

more info found (the standard shells look about right):


Part Number: 66625RA

Chemical Properties: Unleaded
Component Number: 66625RA For bearing clearance from: 0,02 mm
For housing diameter from: 53,7 mm
For shaft diamater from: 49,99 mm
Quantity Unit: Pair
Supplementary Article/Supplementary Info 2: Aluminium alloy on steel base
Thickness: 1,84 mm Next size up would be 2.094mm - too tight.
To bearing clearance: 0,07 mm
To housing diameter: 53,71 mm
To shaft diameter: 50 mm
Width: 17,8 mm
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:42 pm    Post subject: Help! Reply with quote

Does the angle of the pump shaft look good? Supposed to be at 22 degrees at TDC.

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Brit01
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved the pump shaft one tooth back and forth and it varies greatly - by about 20 degrees!!

So my first attempt was spot on. There is no other slot that matches the 22 degrees at TDC.


Left head just put on now. Just got to torque the bolts up carefully in sequence and stages.

Then hopefully right head on later today or next weekend.


ONE QUESTION:

The inlet pipe that has nothing connected to it just below the dizzy hole in the lower picture. What is this for??
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RFlower
Alfa 33


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
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Location: S of France

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brit01 wrote:



ONE QUESTION:

The inlet pipe that has nothing connected to it just below the dizzy hole in the lower picture. What is this for??


Are you referring to the bleed nipple on the clutch slave cylinder?
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's the one - just found out what it is.

cheers Wink


Both heads on this afternoon. Very Happy
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost ready Very Happy

Question about the head gaskets. I heard many 8v boxer gaskets are the thermosetting polymer type so should NOT be re-torqued. I have contacted The Gasket Shop.
Anyone else know if they are this type of material?

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baiones
Alfa Sprint


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Location: Portugal

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you talking about this piece ?

http://i.oodleimg.com/item/2529170773_1s?1304746870.jpg


It's made from bakelite, i dont know why there's any problem doing it...




BTW, looking great your engine...
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Baiones


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Brit01
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.

I think the small picture you posted is the carb gasket insulator, plastic piece with paper gaskets either side.

I'm referring to the head gaskets.

(juntas de tapas - if you know spanish) Wink
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baiones
Alfa Sprint


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brit01 wrote:
Thanks.

I think the small picture you posted is the carb gasket insulator, plastic piece with paper gaskets either side.

I'm referring to the head gaskets.

(juntas de tapas - if you know spanish) Wink

Sorry, i misread what you've written...


If i understood correctly, you are wondering if you can "re-use" the head gasket.


I wouldnt do it, you'll probably end up with oil / water / combustion leaks...
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No sorry you misunderstood.

I have new gaskets of course and after the first heat cycle I'm asking if people are re-torquing the head bolts or not.

General consensus appears to be that people have not re-torqued after the first run and have had no problems.
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was Guy Croft's advice. He's insisting that I re-torque.

Quote:
You should not worry about this setup. If the regime is a simple torque sequence - tighten according to OE regime. Run up to temp, leave overnight. Next day with engine fully cold relax each bolt a tiny fraction in turn (don't loosen them all at once) and then torque up again. You may be interested to know that after final torque-up I always go round the bolts with a long T bar and do 'final settle' by hand. Iam not suggesting I have an usually skilled touch in that regard but one can easily feel if the bolts are secure and pull-up any that 'move'. I am talking 1/16 - 1/8 turn absolute tops. It may impose a higher torque but that doesn't matter as the recommended setting will be well below the level likely to cause thread damage or yield. Torque is related to induced stress only to within some 20% accuracy (based on a good lubrication regime) so you can see doing that can equalise them very satisfactorily.


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paulhide
P4


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, agree.
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RFlower
Alfa 33


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see any reason not to re-torque, except some bolts are a bit inaccessible.
[/u]
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Brit01
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
except some bolts are a bit inaccessible.



You can say that again.

Managed to get almost the right length of extension and socket to reach the bottom bolts from above.

I use a 17mm socket but a 3/8 inch then an adapter 3/8-1/2 which then attaches to the torque wrench.

Couldn't find a 1/2 extension and 1/2 socket short enough to fit in between the cam support and car frame.

Someone told me I could loosen the engine mountings and slide it to the side but that may cause damage to the rubber bushings I believe.
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