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V6 24v 3 lt and higher........

 
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Daimon7
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:42 am    Post subject: V6 24v 3 lt and higher........ Reply with quote

Can anyone really tell if an AR V6 24V 3 or 3.2 lt fitts in an ar33 engine bay???

The engine mounts are complitly different and the gear box should come along with the V6... but is possible in terms of space (also cutting the arch separating the eng. bay)???
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Matt Stolton
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 233
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:01 pm    Post subject: I doubt it Reply with quote

Anything is possible, with enough cash, but I think that shoe horning a 164/156/147 (i.e. front wheel drive set up) V6 into the 33 engine bay is going to be a task too far. You would probably end up having to lengthen the chassis and wings, loose the front bulkhead, and still have a little bulge in the bonnet. The geometry of the front drive train and transmission/drive shafts, isn't in your favour either.

An easier option perhaps would be to get a 75 3.0 engine and rear transaxle, and fit it to a P4. You would get rear wheel drive, loosing 4x4, and apart from loosing the bulkhead, you wouldn't have to modify too much. The front suspension could be awkward, but you could easily make something work, probably whilst rose jointing and coil overing. You would probaly have to modify the fuel tank to give clearance around the rear mounted gearbox, change the gear box linkages, and i would box in the live axle running from engine rear to gearbox, just for your own safety.

Any way, if you listen to most 155 drivers, they say the 2.0TS handles better than the nose heavy V6 version. I think if you bolted the V6 into the little 33, you would severly upset its balance, and end up with an american style drag racer, rather than anything that could go around corners.

Rear or mid engine could be interesting, but would be a feat of engineering, although easier than putting the V6 in the front.

I have heard of 2 guys, as an engineering challenge more than anything, who are putting a second boxer into the rear of a sud, with all manor of clever linkages to make a twin engine, 4X4 type setup. Whether it works is yet to be seen, but they admit it will be more for show, and straight line stuff, rather than track day or raceing.

The V6 does go into a 145 (and presumbaly 146s too). I have been for a spin in Garinda's 3.0 V6 145 (only as a passenger, but you get to understand the car). However, he has completely revised coil over suspension, 4 pot brembo brakes, 6 speed box from 156, etc. The only standard thing is the chassis and the interior, although I can see him putting a cage in for strength, and some personal security perhaps. It has cost him a lot of money, even with him doing a lot himself.

Furthermore, with enough tinkering, there is lots of power available from the light weight boxer engine. If you saw the post earlier about the 225PS 11000 rpm boxer, it proves it is doable, you just have to have an engine that can spin at bike speeds. You then have to be able to get it to breathe a good fuel/air mix at that spin speed and away you go. A friend of mine is convinced (he has done the maths) that the standard 16V cam pattern, and throttle bodies are big enough to flow enough remapped mixture to achieve 200+bhp, if you can spin the engine to 10000rpm. It is easier if you evolve the cams a little and headwork, but standard throttle bodies will flow enough for most outrageous applications.

By playing with the boxer engine, all the money you save on not having to rebuild chassis, modify gearbox and other boxer to V6 transmission/suspension issues, can then be spent on making the light weight boxer spin very fast and giving it fuel/air. The V6 option becomes less logical, with few gains on standard, a lot of hedache, and a lot of compromises. If you are doing it for an engineering exercise, fine, good luck, but to have a driveable racer/track day car, I think just modify the boxer.
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Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!
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Adam H
Alfasud


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 92
Location: Portsmouth, UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did actually think about putting a TS engine in my 33 at one stage (problems with engine, then got ripped off for a replacement engine by A&K in Doncaster) but everyone said that I'd be better off with another boxer engine. Rebuilt my existing engine in the end, but it cost loads and took ages!

Has anyone fitted an 2.0 TS engine (and transmission if necessary) into a 33? Did it need a degree in imagineering or did it slot in reasonably?

If you dunnit - spill the beans please?
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manuel164
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

A man in germany made it.

33 chassis and the bottom plate from 164 with 3.0 12v engine.


http://www.grupposportivo.net/
http://www.grupposportivo.net/AlfaRomeoS3e5.htm
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Laki
Alfasud


Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 74
Location: Ljubjana

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam H wrote:
I did actually think about putting a TS engine in my 33 at one stage (problems with engine, then got ripped off for a replacement engine by A&K in Doncaster) but everyone said that I'd be better off with another boxer engine. Rebuilt my existing engine in the end, but it cost loads and took ages!

Has anyone fitted an 2.0 TS engine (and transmission if necessary) into a 33? Did it need a degree in imagineering or did it slot in reasonably?

If you dunnit - spill the beans please?


Puting TS in AR33? You mean you dont want the pearl of the car? The boxer engine...Go buy 155 and dont destroy a 33!!! Evil or Very Mad
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alfaqv33
Alfasud


Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

u think that you can better fit a subaru turbo boxer engine instead of a alfa v6 engine
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Edward
Alfa 33


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 307
Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subaru engine into a 33 - I know this would be sacralidge but does anyone know more about this. Possilbly a pipe dream but who knows?
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dave
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 139
Location: sussex

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi ed nice to catch up with you on sunday at natinal alfa day

try going to alfa owner
there is luke aka alfanutter he lives near me and is underway with putting a scobbie lump in his perm 4 ser 3
dave
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Edward
Alfa 33


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 307
Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dave,

I will have a look on AO but I can never seem to remember my password etc to get in and usually give up - doh! Yes is was good getting together on Sunday. If you get any updates on the scoobie engine into a 33 let me know - or I may try and make contact via AO.
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Edward
Alfa 33


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 307
Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

I just thought I would add this post as you are a few ahead of me and I thought this would help my total!! Oh dear!
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