Alfa Pages

[tinworm]

I'm not sure if my Alfasud is typical of most but when taking off at a reasonable clip it rises disconcertingly high in the front. Is this typical of Alfasud/33 etc.?
Firstly, the 33; the reason I ask is because on the 33 4x4 wagon I also have it rises nearly as much too, and that has shocking steering geometry from hitting a hole too hard. A front strut is bent and it has a fair amount of negative camber, maybe that is a contributing factor? In all other respects it is standard with a 1.5 twin carb. motor, healthy enough as such but not that powerful that it needs to have the front raise high in the air also.
Secondly, the sud, a 1977 ti with 82 ti body parts fitted; that is fitted with a 1.5 twin carb. motor and goes really well, enough to have the front climb under fast acceleration like a pro stock drag car! Toe in, you ask? The toe in isn't correct because if you wind in a tie-rod end one turn it gives too much toe out- if it's turned the other way it has a small amount of toe in, which is where it is now. Is this a contributing factor, or are all sud's and 33's prone to rising under acceleration this way
I should mention that the sud is fitted with 33 running gear from a 33, an '87 ti, soon to be fitted (today, actually!) with a 1.7 and twin 40 Dell'Orto's.
Apart from these little idiosynchrasies I'm happy as it is fun to drive, a beut handling, fast, nimble and responsive car, even if it is a bit of an homologation effort
I'm sure someone with a Sprint or 33 has had the same problems as me and maybe been able to get the car set up correctly, please share this information, it would be much appreciated.
Cheers,... Col.
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1977 Alfasud ti 1.7
1985 Alfa 33 4x4 1.7
1968 1750 GTV
1986 Alfa Sprint 1.5 QV

[paulhide]

Old tired rear springs??
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Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188

[Ken McCarthy]

Sounds more like shock absorbers to me.

Also, there is (at least for the 16V /Series 3) a tie rod available with an additional screw adjustment that allows fine adjustment of toe in. I have fitted one on my car. You really only need one of these on one side, not both.
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Ken McCarthy - 16V Sprint

[tinworm]

Hmmmmm, initially I thought there was nothing wrong with the shockers but now that I have had a think about it, you could be right Ken.
The struts are a sealed assembly on the s1-33 suspension I used and the other bent and damaged suspension (s2, not used) was a replacement Monroe assembly, also non-insert. I read about people replacing the inserts but all mine are stupid non repairable ones, maybe Australian cars had this setup so it didn't fall apart from rugged roads or somethin I'm thinking these struts are flogged out as the original Alfasud suspension didn't behave like this and it was a lot firmer in the ride and my 33 wagon which exhibits the same characteristics is definately flogged out in the strut department.
Your excellent tie rod mod has been filed away for a wrecking yard foray in the future. Thanks mate.
Cheers,... Col.
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1977 Alfasud ti 1.7
1985 Alfa 33 4x4 1.7
1968 1750 GTV
1986 Alfa Sprint 1.5 QV

[paulhide]

If rear shocks had gone the back will start skipping. If fronts, handling will disappear (you will be driving a boat) and front will not settle very quickly if depressed. Another thing that will cause this is old tired bushes at the top of the struts. Did once see a car with the metal disks ontop of the bushes placed the wrong way up.
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Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188

[tinworm]

I would like to give it the bounce test to check the front and rear damping, but I can't, the front of the car is up in the air and half way through doing an engine replacement. When this is done I'll try it out again but everything is in fine order in the front end, at least all the suspension rubbers, spring seat bearings and strut top rubbers. Beats me.
At the rear the handling is fine, no skipping at any time, it's as if it's a race car! At ther front the handling could be marginally better and the steering is a little heavy sometimes due to the 6" rims and 205/45-16 tyres. Although the track is the same or similar I'm getting some torque steer under hard acceleration too.
All this leads me to thinking it would be better replacing the brakes with s3-33 ventilated brakes with sud or 33 ti 5.5x14 wheels and 185/60-14 tyres in a bid to getting a more neutral handling car.
Thanks for your input Paul, it's given me some things to consider anyway.
Cheers,.... Colin.
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1977 Alfasud ti 1.7
1985 Alfa 33 4x4 1.7
1968 1750 GTV
1986 Alfa Sprint 1.5 QV

[Ken McCarthy]

Colin

I don't think you will find the adjustable tie rod in a wreckers. I bought mine new from my Alfa Service people (John French). I think it may be an option or late update on the Series 3 (16V) cars.

Aftermarket front shock absorbers can be fitted, such as Koni but require the top of the strut to be cut off and a new insert to be fitted. The insert is held in by a bolt at the bottom. This is fairly easy to do but also easy to stuff up. The critical thing is where you cut off the top of the strut. The Series 3 is quite easy but I think the earlier cars have a different pan bearing location detail so if you cut off too much you can ruin the strut. I fitted Koni Sport (yellow) and am very pleased with the result but their fitting instructions are woeful.

Best wheel tyre combination is 195/50 on 15 inch rims. Mine are 6.5 inch but if you get the offset right you can get 7 inch in with minimal rubbing. I looked at 16 inch but the very low profile will make the ride very hard. Equivalent tyres would be 195/45R16 or 215/40R16. 215 is a very big tyre for a small car.

Torque steer is always going to be there. It can be minimised by good shock absorbers, all the suspension bushes being in good order, lowering the car a little with maybe stiffer springs and getting the engine mounted correctly (vertical location of top mount and rear mount/gearbox tailpiece). Power steering on the later cars also helps. I rarely notice torque steer on my car.

Regards
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Ken McCarthy - 16V Sprint

[mt]

Agree about the tyre sizes, i had 215/40/16s on one of my P4s and found it killed the handling, made it feel completely lifeless. Loads of grip though! And rubbing on the arches... Went back to standard 14s which were SO much more fun but lacked grip (hence so much fun, slidey slidey!), but 195/50/15s seem to be the best compromise between grip/fun that i've tried.