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Joelomint
Alfa Sprint
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 119
Location: London
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 Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: camber |
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morning,
does anyone know how to go about adjusting front wheel camber on a mk 1 33?
i've bought some replacement springs that claimed a mild lowering and stiffening compared to standard. the idea was not to go as low or hard as eibachs, but the negative camber does look a bit extreme with em on...
this aint neccessarily a problem as it corners quite nicely now...  however, i have wondered if it could end up costing a fair bit in tyres over time?
joel |
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Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:34 am Post subject: |
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My car is at the standard ride height, and all my tyres are worn on the outside shoulder because of track days and general roundabout hooning. If I had some negative camber, I'd corner better AND wear my tyres evenly. 
Just keep that corner speed up, that's your solution.
Tyre shops have told me that a 33's wheel alignment pretty much has no adjustment. You can maybe adjust front toe-in I think but that's all.
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BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
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BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:32 am Post subject: |
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I spok to Eibach today re ez shim and asked what colour to get and if they are ok for the front and what is the maximum camber they can adjust. I was told 1/2 - 1 deg and that a drop of 80 on the rear will cause a 1.2 deg increase and 60 mm drop at the front will cause a 1.6 - 1.7 deg increase. They will call me back with other info. What springs did you get and how much did it drop?
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Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Huh? They told you that dropping the ride height at the rear of your 33 will give you a camber change on your rear wheels? How does that work, given the 33's rear suspension?
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Alan
Alfasud
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Slovenia - Ljubljana
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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You can not change camber on front or rear on alfa 33 not withouth modifications.
I made some excentric washers end larger holes on front shocks, so that i can adjust camber.
This is how it looks like when the wheels are on full camber:
Modifications can be done on the rear axle too (fwd cars only)
Wheel bearing and wheel nut are screwed onto the axle with 4 screws (like a flange)
You can loosen them and make some spacers (washers) for bottom two screws and so you get negative camber.
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RWD 33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur7NZQczh_w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZjqKVTNVJQ
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BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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I got a call back and he said there is no info about our 33’s. He got that info from a general diagram / chart which says if you lower by such an amount you get such an amount of camber. Obviously doesn’t apply to or 33's or cars with fixed axles.
Im waiting for another call as to what colour we should use
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Joelomint
Alfa Sprint
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 119
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| BigAl wrote: |
| I spok to Eibach today re ez shim and asked what colour to get and if they are ok for the front and what is the maximum camber they can adjust. I was told 1/2 - 1 deg and that a drop of 80 on the rear will cause a 1.2 deg increase and 60 mm drop at the front will cause a 1.6 - 1.7 deg increase. They will call me back with other info. What springs did you get and how much did it drop? |
i'd say about a two inch drop at the front, tiny bit more at the back. unsure of manufacture, but label on box, which had correct model and year, claimed '20% stiffer than standard'...the rear camber didn't change much if at all. the fronts look a bit more like alan's than the old set up, but do seem better to the eye since getting the alignment done properly... i'll ask the chap who did it if he actually measured the number of degrees |
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BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Alan, thanks for that pic for the rear, I’m going to send it to Eibach and get their opinion as to if you could use the ezshim instead of washers or that upside down u shaped spacer. Re the front I was wondering if the ezshim could be used between the hub and the part which the brake disk bolts to by removing the driveshaft nut, or is it one unit?
Hole size of ezshims are.
Blue 4 cm
Grey 6.2 cm
Red 7.3 cm
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Alan
Alfasud
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Slovenia - Ljubljana
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm what is ezshim  sorry for my poor english...
That U shaped spacer on the rear is spot welded if i remember correctly.
Another hint: if you want wider rear track, you dont need to by spacers because the wheel bearing will not last for that long as in standard.
You can just use longer screws and some spacers for them so that the drum and the bearing is moved wider than the standard.
Or something even more nuts (i did that to my ford fiesta) Cut the rear axle in the middle and add 5 centimeters of material (iron tube that goes over the axle) so you get 2,5 cm on each side. Offcourse you need to lenghten the panhard rod too.
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RWD 33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur7NZQczh_w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZjqKVTNVJQ
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BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: |
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Hey Alan
ezshim is like 2 wedges of cheese put together in the middle, horizontally and vertically, the thickness of the wedge dictates the camber (vertical wedge) and toe (horizontal wedge). You measure your toe and camber before fitting the cheese wedges and by using a chart adjust cheese wedges to cancel out your measurements. You then end up wit 0 camber and toe, or adjust to get what you want. Yup I like cheese. 
Could you please explain why both the middle bolts look like they have not been made eccentric as well? I thought you would have the top bolt fixed and then adjust the bottom one to get your desired camber, then fix the position and then do the same for the middle ones. Have I got it all wrong? Thanks
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Alan
Alfasud
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Slovenia - Ljubljana
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BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the reply I have got from SPC:
The diagram shows that an EZ Shim may work on this vehicle. The best way to do this would be to have all three sizes available and then do a physical fit up on the vehicle. The bolt pattern size and the center hub diameter will determine which shim to use. Also make sure the selected number combination is straight up when installing the shim. Refer to our website for video and text instruction on the EZ Shims.
http://www.spcalignment.com/PROD_DIR/TECH_DIR/SPC_ALIGN_TECHINTRO.html
lots of use 
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Alan
Alfasud
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Slovenia - Ljubljana
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Eddie_W
Alfasud
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 74
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Hi all, one of the things that concerns me with lowering the car is that the decamber is altered. If you look at the 33 from the front(at standard height) the lower wishbone is lower at the wheel end than the inner pickups. This means that when the suspension is compressed as in cornering the bottom of the wheel is moved outward as the arm gets longer thus increasing the negative camber to compensate for roll.
This of course is the camber that causes the extra tyre wear that a lot of the chaps complain about with their 33s lowered.
If when lowered, the lower arm is near or on horizontal then when compressed on cornering it is effectively getting shorter thus moving the bottom of the tyre inward and creating positive camber. Highly detrimental to cornering adhesion.The correct answer then would be to raise the inner pickup points or lower the outer. Niether of which is a 5 minute operation.
Comments?
regards Eddie
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Alan
Alfasud
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Slovenia - Ljubljana
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Joelomint
Alfa Sprint
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 119
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: correcting -ve camber |
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| Eddie_W wrote: |
Hi all, one of the things that concerns me with lowering the car is that the decamber is altered. If you look at the 33 from the front(at standard height) the lower wishbone is lower at the wheel end than the inner pickups. This means that when the suspension is compressed as in cornering the bottom of the wheel is moved outward as the arm gets longer thus increasing the negative camber to compensate for roll.
This of course is the camber that causes the extra tyre wear that a lot of the chaps complain about with their 33s lowered.
If when lowered, the lower arm is near or on horizontal then when compressed on cornering it is effectively getting shorter thus moving the bottom of the tyre inward and creating positive camber. Highly detrimental to cornering adhesion.The correct answer then would be to raise the inner pickup points or lower the outer. Niether of which is a 5 minute operation.
Comments?
regards Eddie |
Right...I'm still running about on the inner edges of my tyres, which feels lively, but can be a bit too twitchy on long runs.
I've considered something like what alan has done to widen his track - ie making a spacer to go between the bottom ball joint and the lower arm. this would hopefully bring the inner edge of the tyre in, and drop the lower arm closer to it's stock position.
Just tilting the wheel at the hub would mean that the track would still shorten under compression - as eddie points out - and that aint wot i want!. so I don't fancy messing with the strut to hub mounting.
Now, if i remember this correctly, the S2 front suspension is different from S1 in that the wheel is further forward to reduce dive under braking/acceleration. I believe the lower arm is shorter as a result, and the driveshafts too.
Can anyone out there confirm this?
How different are the trailing arms?
I previously had an 88 1.5 Ti with eibach springs on. This setup was lower than the S1 i have now, but didn't suffer from the -ve camber?
Would be ideal if i can use stock parts to get my front wheels closer to vertical again... Would rather not change the whole suspension setup to S2 either, as i prefer the way the S1 behaves. |
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