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[quote="RFlower"]The Imola on which I changed camshafts and installed all new tappets was sadly written off shortly afterwards. All wheels, tyres, and suspension were irreparably damaged, body slightly twisted, but I have kept it for the engine and other parts. The engine has done 140,000km (nearly 90,000 miles) The Trofeo I now have had less than 80,000 km (50,000 miles) from new when I bought it. I changed all fluids, and belts, and have done almost exactly 10,000 km in the year since then. The tappets still make no sound whatsoever. The loudest sound from the engine with the bonnet open is the hiss of the induction. I fitted the same oil pressure gauge and sender I had on the Imola, in the same position, on the main gallery on top of the engine. At 130 km/hr (81mph) on the motorway, the oil pressure is 80psi, compared with 40 psi at best on the Imola. The Imola tappets clicked slightly when I bought it, but I waited until they were quite noisy before I pulled the heads to look at them, and then wished I had done so earlier, as by then I had to find 2 camshafts, which are not so easily come by as tappets. I now know that the tappets should make no noise at all. They were totally silent on the Imola after the engine rebuild, but with half the oil pressure of the Trofeo I wonder how long they would have lasted? I guess that if correct oil changes have not been done, there will be a lot more damage than immediately evident from noisy tappets etc., such as severe wear of the oil pump. Incidentally, the (non-hydraulic) tappets on the Sprint are, and have always been, completely silent. I have owned it since it was 3 years old, it had been clocked when I bought it in Spain, sdo I don't know the mileage, but I have done only 80,000km since then. The oil pressure on the installed gauge runs at 40psi, a bit lower when it is thrashed.[/quote]
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Topic review
Author
Message
Brit01
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:10 pm
Post subject:
Quote:
I guess that if correct oil changes have not been done, there will be a lot more damage than immediately evident from noisy tappets etc., such as severe wear of the oil pump.
I have done regular oil changes with filters after the rebuild, overly cautious in fact.
Never had a warning light on the oil pressure, but never had an aftermarket gauge showing the pressure. Maybe worth getting.
Now I was told when I bought it he bought all the parts from the official alfa romeo workshop.
Hope he put in original alfa hydraulic tappets, the harder types.
RFlower
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:11 pm
Post subject:
The Imola on which I changed camshafts and installed all new tappets was sadly written off shortly afterwards. All wheels, tyres, and suspension were irreparably damaged, body slightly twisted, but I have kept it for the engine and other parts. The engine has done 140,000km (nearly 90,000 miles)
The Trofeo I now have had less than 80,000 km (50,000 miles) from new when I bought it. I changed all fluids, and belts, and have done almost exactly 10,000 km in the year since then.
The tappets still make no sound whatsoever. The loudest sound from the engine with the bonnet open is the hiss of the induction.
I fitted the same oil pressure gauge and sender I had on the Imola, in the same position, on the main gallery on top of the engine. At 130 km/hr (81mph) on the motorway, the oil pressure is 80psi, compared with 40 psi at best on the Imola.
The Imola tappets clicked slightly when I bought it, but I waited until they were quite noisy before I pulled the heads to look at them, and then wished I had done so earlier, as by then I had to find 2 camshafts, which are not so easily come by as tappets.
I now know that the tappets should make no noise at all. They were totally silent on the Imola after the engine rebuild, but with half the oil pressure of the Trofeo I wonder how long they would have lasted?
I guess that if correct oil changes have not been done, there will be a lot more damage than immediately evident from noisy tappets etc., such as severe wear of the oil pump.
Incidentally, the (non-hydraulic) tappets on the Sprint are, and have always been, completely silent. I have owned it since it was 3 years old, it had been clocked when I bought it in Spain, sdo I don't know the mileage, but I have done only 80,000km since then. The oil pressure on the installed gauge runs at 40psi, a bit lower when it is thrashed.
Brit01
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:43 pm
Post subject:
Thanks for your advice guys.
Well I added some Liqui Moly tappet additive last night. I'll run it for a week or so and take another video (possibly in the garage with less background noise).
I've heard various opinions, the majority good, but also a couple of negative ones, some bearings may be bad, tappets a little noisy etc.
The additive is supposed to reveal worn tappets.
If they are just dirty/clogged it should clean them, if the noise does not disappear or reduce then it's probably time to inspect them visually.
RFlower
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:44 pm
Post subject:
I don't know what the EP additive level is in the oil you are using. If it comes from the US it may be very low. Oils with the same names are not necessarily the same in different countries.
Since my bad experience a couple of years ago
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5972&highlight=
I am using Shell Helix, which has as high a content of EP additive I can find listed for any easily available oil, with half a bottle of ZDDPlus per oil change for the non-cat engines - despite what ZeNiTh-PbArM said about it mixing
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5992&highlight=
I don't think the problem he cited of the distribution of a small quantity of additive in a huge amount of oil is really relevant when putting half a bottle of additive in a sump of oil.
Edit: ZDDPlus only used in non-cat engines
Brit01
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:07 pm
Post subject:
Quote:
Looks wonderful, and sounds fine to me.
That's a big relief to have a second opinion.
Had a sleepless night last night
Didn't want an expensive job to remove the heads and check everything.
It's my second baby! (first is of course my 1 year old son).
(just in case wifey is reading).
Not sure if a thinner or thicker oil is better with hydraulic tappets.
If it's too thick the small oil passages can get blocked, too thin and not enough protection.
Some are using 10W/60!!
I hope 40 is a good compromise for winter.
Trying to find Wynns hydraulic tapper additive here, but no luck yet. They have wynns, maybe I need to contact the importer directly. Worth a try, only a few bucks.
john 33_16v
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:53 pm
Post subject:
Looks wonderful, and sounds fine to me.
I'm comparing to minari 8v 1.7 with
mechanical
heads.
My brother had an s2 like yours, black 1.7 with hydraulic tappets many moons ago and that was really clanky, but it never got worse over about 4 or 5 years (and probably about 40,000 miles) that he owned the car.
John
Brit01
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:49 am
Post subject:
Listening to a lot of youtubes they all sound a little different.
Maybe due to the microphone used, filters, plugs etc. not sure.
The microphone does make it sound a little different though.
Quick question Ian:
What oil are you using? You have an 8v engine right? Hydraulic tappets?
Any rebuild in it's history? Filters? Ignition cables?
I noticed differences in engine sounds when I changed the air filters and ignition cables a year ago.
Maybe due to the rebuild it sounds different - size and make of pistons/valves? I'm just guessing here Ian.
Brit01
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:11 am
Post subject:
Now you've got me really worried
It was rebuilt, hence the clean engine bay, aboout 14,000kms ago.
Motul semi 15W/50 was used after the rebuild.
After I decided to go for syn 15/50 Motul.
What sounds wrong to you? Tappets?
It drives great.
Now I'm thinking when they put a new crankshaft pulley on a few months ago, they used a pneumatic wrench to get the stubborn nut off. Hoping they didn't damage anything with that.
Ian M
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:35 pm
Post subject:
My thinking is that the engine is from the 1980's so was designed to run oil from that period, so as oils evolve with modern engines so they forget about the old girls.
My point being was the oil your using available when the engine was designed or built?
If not, use something that is cos that dont sound right to me and sounds nothing like my engine which is the same as yours and if anything not as well loved.
And that brings me on to my next point, from the look of your engine bay you are a man with too much time on his hands
Brit01
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:08 pm
Post subject:
last year, before summer I had been using Motul semi 15w/50.
I decided to swtich to full syn Motul 300v 15w/50.
This was about 3200 kms ago.
I expected the syn oil to clean out some gunge and need a change, but the other morning I heard a large tappet noise when I arrive to work thinking one of the passages had got blocked or something.
That exact day (last Friday) I got an oil change and filter, Havoline 5W/40 full syn again, thinner oil for winter arrival (southern hermisphere remember).
The rear tappet stopped clinking and these videos were taken today. I think it's running fine but wanted a second opinion.
I'll change the oil again after winter probably back to the 300v (still got 2 litres of it.
paulhide
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:59 pm
Post subject:
Everything looks nice and clean. Will have to listen to my cars to compare.
What oil are you using?
Brit01
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:38 pm
Post subject: Running ok or a bit tappety?
Not sure if my hydraulic tappets are a little noisy or normal. Just done a recent premature oil change to smooth things out a little as I changed from semi to full syn and it seemed to clean out the sludge somewhat.
YouTube - MOV07640.MPG
YouTube - MOV07639
YouTube - MOV07638.MPG