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Bellamachinna · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: Did my engine died????

Bad news... Sad

It hapened today. I was driving it very gently (at about 2500rpm in 3rd), when suddenly (on a uphill) the car lost power, beguining to work on 2 cylinders.
The engine didnt managed to pull the car for the rest of the uphill. I puted my foot on the clutch (to keep the engine running), and tried to raise the revs just to park the car on the kerb...

The engine`s idle was 1500 rpm on this ocasion.
I switch the ignition, and waited for a while, looking at possible causes.
As i didnt found nothing wrong, i started him. The engine started with dificulty (this time on 3 cylinders), and i was able to take the car home.

But it didnt stop here. The first time i had to hit the brake pedal, after this, the brake was rock solid...
I thought tha my brake servo had died, and dued to an air leak the engine was flooded.
But when i removed the vacuum plastic hose that feeds the servo, it sarted driping fuel through the "nipple" on the air intake butterflie.
A friend of mine, that was looking at it, said that i was looking at a burnt valve...

What do you think

All the best
P.Camilo
_________________
All'interno della mia macchina, vi sedete, tenete sopra e CHIUDETE IN SU...

tvatavuk · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:04 am Post subject:

If there is no knocking coming from engine it could be valve on cyl but that sudden power drop and 2cyl work is what puzzels me?
2000-2500rpm on higher gear + uphill is ideal for making engine knock/ping/detonation/fuel self ignition. That would explain valve failure.
But knock or series of knocks so hard to stress engine to work on 2 cyls should be easily heard by driver?
_________________
Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

Bellamachinna · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject:

It didnt made any strange noise...

The uphill is not very step. It simply was going fine, and suddenly losed power.

Even if i start the engine, i can feel that he isnt working on 4 cylinders, but there is no strange noises coming from it. Even the idle speed is 1500 rpm so there is only a slight vibracion, indicating a 3 cylinder mode...

The trouble, is that if i try to move the car, he misfires, and looses another cylinder, what makes it impossible to drive

All the best
P.Camilo
_________________
All'interno della mia macchina, vi sedete, tenete sopra e CHIUDETE IN SU...

tvatavuk · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject:

Reasons for working on 2 cyls can be numerous (rpm sensor, spark ignition, fuel delivery, timing belt problems to mechanical failure inside engine).
I don't want to advice you to do something that could turn small problem into big one.
Only right thing to do is to take it to mechanic.

If that is no option and you are ready to gamble with engine then here are few things to look at:
I presume that oil and coolant levels are ok and there is no visible signs of mixture of those 2 in oil filler, coolant bottle...?

Just a wild guess for engine working scenario:
Unburnt fuel exits problematic cyl and enters exhaust.
Burning/explosion of fumes inside exhaus branch occur leading to anomaly in working of other cyl?

1. Find out what are problematic cyls (check spark plugs, disconnect spark leads)
2. Disconnect fuel injecting into problematic cyl (remove el wire from injector)
This should stop fuel from entering into problematic cylinder and going into exhaist branch colector causing missfire and stoping other cyl from working.
If other cyl is ok, you should have 3 working cyls and enough power to move car?
_________________
Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

Bellamachinna · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject:

Spent the afternoon trying to solve the problem...

As the engine was already flooded, i removed all the plugs. The right bank plugs were black (rich mixture) but were dry. The left bank plugs, were black but soaked in petrol. I cleaned all of them, reinstalled them and started it.

It started, but only on 2 cyl... Only way to keep it running is to pump the accelarator pedal, because there is no idle.

After this test, removed all the plugs again... The left bank plugs, were soaked (both) but the plug on cyl nº4 was covered with oil...

Also noticed that under the throtlle bodie, bellow the injectors, was a "pool" of petrol...

There is no sign of fluids mixing.

A friend of mine also sugested, that the brake servo membrane, can be causing a massive air leak that is causing the engine to flood.
I will disconnect the hose from the brake servo, and trie to start the engine to see if there´s some change...
If it doesnt work, i will try disconnecting the 4th cylinder injector

I`m really suspecting from internal failure... Crying or Very sad

Thanks for your time, Tino
P.Camilo
_________________
All'interno della mia macchina, vi sedete, tenete sopra e CHIUDETE IN SU...

tvatavuk · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:06 am Post subject:

If you again take out plugs be sure to put car in higher gear and move it front then put in reverse and move back few times, so floded cyls dry as much as they can.

There is just to much fuel there.
Is there spark on that engine side? ( rotor arm, rotor cap,wire leads,plugs failure?)
Is there leak on injector seal rings?

Oil on plug is bad sign
- best case scenario it is from oil that got into intake from oil breather pipe , if this is case there should be oil in air intake chamber
- from camshaft covers or similar leak into cyl
- if it is brake fluid then from brake master cyl leak
- enything else is a bit bad and includes too much fuel in cyl and oil, damge to head gaskets, piston rings or holes somewhere else.

When my vacum pipe disconnected and started air leak on my 16v, I would get around 500rpm idle and engine would die (needed pedal push to keep engine running), so when you disconect it, don't expect idle at normal point.

Is it posible that timing belt sliped on that side?
_________________
Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

mt · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:41 am Post subject:

Sorry to hear this Sad

When mine mis-fired it was because the HT leads had worn and were shorting out, probably not the case here but are you sure the plugs are sparking? If the misfire is due to flooding i'd have expected the car to fire on all 4 cylinders once you'd cleaned the plugs and got rid of the flood.

Bellamachinna · Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject:

Timing belts were Ok

Verified oil, again, and now it smells like petrol... So, i guess the fault is found.

Piston/s or piston rings...

Next week, i will start, removing the engine from car, to see if there is something that can be done to save the engine...

Already located a engine block, without pistons and without heads...
I`ll keep you guy`s posted

All the best
P.Camilo
_________________
All'interno della mia macchina, vi sedete, tenete sopra e CHIUDETE IN SU...

tvatavuk · Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject:

Since there was pool of fuel in vacum pipes and throtle. It is nothing strange that fuel found way around piston rings and into oil. After all AFAIK fuel is thinner then oil. I still hope it is something easily fixable and not too expensive.
Good luck next week.
_________________
Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo