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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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john 33_16v 16 Valve
Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1406 Location: herts, uk
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Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Al,
I think people have said that a 142 can be used with a cat, but the cat cars should have been supplied with a 147 ecu.
My 93 cat car has a 147
John _________________ If it aint broke, fiddle with it until it is!
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93 33 16v Mirtle Met
08 Fiat Grande Punto Exotica Red
90 Yamaha FZR600 Genesis- Silky white/red/blue |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I dont think i have ever seen these 147's Mine has a bit of masking tape with a different L reg on it and says cat, but still ends with 142 _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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john 33_16v 16 Valve
Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1406 Location: herts, uk
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Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Beg your pardon Al'
I was sure I had a 147 from years ago when i got it tested etc etc.
Looking on eper using my chassis number, part number should be 60537*34 - *=2 or 8 wrote it down with a pen that was running out. On the apt site that equates to 142 ECU - hooray!!
On eper they list 60569450 (147 on apt) as being for cat car but 'AUS' - Australia????????
When i got my ecu tested, they said that motronic ecus were highly reliable, but guessing rechipping could upset or damage them.
When you changed your lambda did u fit a pucka bosch one? When i bought my car it had the lambda disconnected, and it ran mega rich.
I fitted a dubious lambda from halfords, and it was better in terms of richness, but the mot tester had to rev the nuts off the car for ages to get the emissions to drop down. The car also had an annoying stammer.
Then fitted bosch lambda and stammer went, and all MOTs since (2003 i think) have had no mad rev ups and really low CO.
John
Cheers,
John _________________ If it aint broke, fiddle with it until it is!
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93 33 16v Mirtle Met
08 Fiat Grande Punto Exotica Red
90 Yamaha FZR600 Genesis- Silky white/red/blue |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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No worries mate That’s why I thought of trying several ecu's just in case. I got a great deal on my last lambda sensor and it is a pucka Bosch one
This site
http://www.carclinicmagazine.com/alfa_common_ecu_failures.html
goes on about testing lambda sensor by stripping wire and touching the + battery terminal and see if co2 comes down, I might try that at a last resort.
I have the car booked in for a throttle body balance next week and during this process it will be put on the alfa diagnostics which will tell me if the lambda is running correctly. I have already wasted money on a new CTS and would like to exhaust all other possibilities before forking out for a new lambda sensor.
I am thinking it’s down to the 5 min mod that the previous owner did and I don’t know where the reference point for the mark is, to put it back to normal. I might just try moving the spring whilst on the emission tester and see if it will bring it back down to correct levels. _________________ x2 33 16v
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ZeNiTh-PbArM Alfa 33
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 388 Location: Paris, France
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, i would strongly advise AGAINST applying 12V to the lambda input of the ECU, as it will damage the input stage (max voltage during normal operation of the car is 1V). If you need to lower CO value, try removing crankcase breather pipe from inlet duct, this will allow unmetered air to weaken the mixture. If CO level drops and/or engine runs smoother at idle, you'll have to readjust the AFM flap ; proceed as follows : with engine at idle, open AFM cover, there is a small crew on the rotating arm, loosen the screw and adjust the position of the arm until you reach the position when engine idle is smoother (and rpm is reasonably low). If you reach adjustment limits, stop the engine, move the spring one tooth and repeat until satisfactory result is achieved.
regards,
zp |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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ZeNiTh-PbArM, interesting post,
I meant touch the stripped wire with one hand and the other hand to the battery and your body acts as a resistor, I definitely didn’t mean touch directly to positive, it explains it better in the link.
The crankcase pipe sounds quick, the moving of the arm sounds like it could take a long time.
All I want is to put it back to where is was as they are calibrated from the factory by bosch and am worried about messing about with it further. Do the AFM’s go out of calibration and is your method the correct way to re-calibrate them?
It might be something else that is causing high emissions, like lambda sensor or cat, so im trying to put everything where it should be. The place that tested the emissions don’t have anything that fits into the small emissions plug hole in the exhaust before the cat, so I cant tell what the readings before the cat are. _________________ x2 33 16v
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ZeNiTh-PbArM Alfa 33
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 388 Location: Paris, France
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Hi, the easiest way to recalibrate an AFM that has been tinkered with requires another known good AFM. You'll need a source of air flow, like an hair drier or a vacuum cleaner, and make some piping to adjust the AFM to the flow source (use duct tape and plastic bottles).
Adjust flow until the known good AFM has a flap openend about 50%. Measure the resistance on the connector. Using the same flow, calibrate your AFM until you read the same value. Check again with lower flow (drill hole into your piping to release some of the flow) and compare that both AFMs still show comparable measurements.
If you do not have another AFM, or for tuning the AFM to your particular engine, use the above explained procedure, mark the original position of the arm if you're afraid so you can always restore the previous setting. Adjustment of the AFM in the car is made within the hour if you're accustomed to adjust carburettors (feel the effects of the mixture on the idle on a rough to smooth scale)
regards,
zp |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks again ZeNiTh-PbArM
Looking at the connector on the AFM and using the left pin as 1 and the right pin as 5, what pins do I read from to get resistance from the flap?
Also, I just noticed there is what I assume is a thermistor in the top of entrance mouth for air temp, could cleaning this make a difference "brake cleaner?" and do you know the pins for that to also compare?
My Co2 and hydrocarbons are fine on tick over and hydrocarbons are fine on fast idle but Co2 is high. There is a mark on mine but I haven’t got round to putting car on fast idle and moving spring tension yet.
I have a spare AFM but last year when I was going through the same emission testing it gave too high Co2 and hydrocarbons on idle and fast idle, it looks like it has been opened as there is white sealant and clear sealant around and inside it, so I cant use that one as a reference _________________ x2 33 16v
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Need help with this, there are 5 pins and I assume 3 readings, air temp, idle mixture and air flow.
I tested by trying pins 1 through to five, then pin 2 through to 5 ect ect and only noted down if there was a change when moving the flap or the idle mixture screw.
I took a reading on the 20k range and got the following readings, this is off the car in the stationary position.
For the flap
Pins, reading
1&4, 2.09, changed with heat
2&4, 0.06, no change with heat
3&4, 0.38, no change with heat
4&5, 0.07, no change with heat
For the idle mixture
Pins, reading
1&5, 1.76, changed with heat
2&5, 0.01, no change with heat
3&5, 0.36, no change with heat
4&5, 0.07, no change with heat
The following pins gave no change for Idle or Flap
Pins, reading
1&2, 1.81, changed with heat
1&3, 2.17, changed with heat
2&3, 0.36, no change with heat
Help, where do I start??? _________________ x2 33 16v
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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ZeNiTh-PbArM Alfa 33
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 388 Location: Paris, France
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry pal but it's the summer season and i spend most of my time (including the last two weeks) backpacking and climbing on the wild side of the country, so i'm not connected to the internet.
okay so proper way of checking AFM is :
test 1 : measure resistance between pins 4 and 5 to get air temperature sensor values
test 2 : AFM off the car, put pin 4 to ground and pin 3 to a voltage of 5V.
measure that voltage on pin 2 fluctuates between 0V and 5V when you manually actuate the flap
measure that voltage on pin 1 fluctuates between 0V and 5V when you rotate the CO adjustment screw
regards,
zp |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Zenith
Now im even more confused as pin 4 & 5 show no change with heat but does change with flap movement and idle mixture screw adjustment.
I am using pin 1 as the left pin and pin 5 as the right pin with the mixture screw to the right and the plastic cover on top, have i got them the wrong way around? If i use my pins 1 & 2 i do get temp changes, bearing this in mind pin 3 would be ok for +5v, as it would be the same pin if the numbers were reversed but i dont want to blow anything by connecting the ground to my pin 2.
Thanks _________________ x2 33 16v
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Oggie Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 811 Location: Whitehill
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Just a note Al, Zenith I believe is working on a Left hand drive might this make a difference . _________________ PHAT 33 |
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ZeNiTh-PbArM Alfa 33
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 388 Location: Paris, France
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, i suppose you indeed number the pins in reverse order. LHD or RHD isn't supposed to make any difference, with a magnifying glass you can read pin number molded in the ECU connector, pin number is always written on connectors.
Anyway, there's no risk of frying the AFM since only passive components are inside. Just avoid applying full 5V to temperature sensor, but that won't happen even with reverse pinout.
regards,
zp |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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thanks again zenith, so i guess i have numbered mine incorrectly and so will go from right to left and use the 4th pin along to connect the ground to. _________________ x2 33 16v
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:14 am Post subject: |
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I was thinkking of using an old pc PSU for the +5v, from the red wires, but would like a suggestion for connecting it to the pins without it shorting or slipping, is a female connector available?? _________________ x2 33 16v
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Oggie Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 811 Location: Whitehill
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Al is the connector an RS-232 type (D shape with5 pins across the top and 4 pins underneath) if so you can get these a Maplins or if your really desperate pm me and i will make one up with wires attached so easy to buzz out and I will post it to you . _________________ PHAT 33 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks very much for the offer, I managed to jerry rig something up by cutting up the 6 pin aux connector. I used the purple +5VSB as it was closer to 5V “5.09” compared to the +5V DC, which was 5.32V
Mine
Pin 1 = 2.55 I used this as a reference as it has a cap and my AFM was ok on idle
Pin 2 = 0.25 - 4.97
Spare
Pin 1 = 2.55
Pin 2 = 0.25 - 4.91
unopened
pin 1 = 2.55
pin 2 = 0.25 - 4.98
I managed to get the spare to read the same mixture reading by matching up my readings from before I knew what to do.
Now the fun begins in trying to figure out how to get airflow through it. _________________ x2 33 16v
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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All done, my spare AFM, which was giving high hydrocarbons had a very dirty ATS, I cleaned that and it now shows the same as mine. The airflow on my spare matched the unopened one and there was an indentation on the toothed cog, so I guess it hadn’t been moved, why open the top??? I have set mine up to read the same. A vacuum cleaner with variable sucking speed would be best, my 1200w just managed to get the flap to the 1/2 way point.
If anyone wants their AFM checked, I am now set up for it
Thanks again zenith. _________________ x2 33 16v
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