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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: thermostat |
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does mine need replacing or not???
As you guys know i never take my car above 3k until it is at running temp, and normally takes about 10 mins to get there. Due to the cold weather it takes longer and doesnt quite get there, is this normal. My weekly drive consists of 30 min on the motorway, not above 3k at 60 mph. I would assume that the thermostat should regulate the temp no matter what chill factor is put on the radiator but i'm not sure as my car has done this ever since i have owned it. What are peoples experiences after fitting a new thermostat? My coolent is new, last year and was still clear blue when i put it back in when i did my head.
I remember my mums old car having to have cardboard put in fornt of the radiator in the winter. _________________ x2 33 16v
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bobbber P4
Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2162 Location: The Greatest Town on Earth - Swadlincote, UK
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Typical "stuck open" thermostat failure Al.
Replacement is by taking the inlet manifold off. An hours job if the pipes cooperate!
Bob _________________ Fiat Bravo 165 Sport |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:19 am Post subject: |
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I've managed to change it without removing the manifold on an 8v I.E. with pas. Removing the bonnet is necessary though and it is a bit fiddly.
Maybe on a 16v it's too tight.
Putting a bit of card over the radiator helps a bit as a short term solution. But leave the fan side clear. _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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bobbber P4
Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2162 Location: The Greatest Town on Earth - Swadlincote, UK
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Then you have the fingers of Mr Tickle! ![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) _________________ Fiat Bravo 165 Sport |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: |
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mr tickle lol
I was thinking that no matter how cold it is out there it should heat up in the same time, just weird that it does get to running temp and heater is hot, another thing to add to my list.
The last one i did i ended up breaking a hope clip and was late for training, had to walk a mile to the shop and it started raining. _________________ x2 33 16v
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Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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My s2 1.7QV eventually reached almost-operating-temperature when it had a bad thermostat. I thought the thermostat was good until I replaced the definitely-faulty one in my s2 1.5TI and saw how much faster the car warmed up! _________________ "Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
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bobbber P4
Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2162 Location: The Greatest Town on Earth - Swadlincote, UK
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Due to the flat 4 design of the engine, it won't ever heat up as quick as a straight or 'v' engine. There's a large area of forward facing metal which acts as a heatsink and is directly in contact with in-coming air-flow.
My 2cv had a similar design (albeit 2 cylinders!) and that was just air cooled.
Ben, what you had I'd describe as a "lazy thermostat"!
Bob _________________ Fiat Bravo 165 Sport |
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john 33_16v 16 Valve
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Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1406 Location: herts, uk
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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My car may have an iffy thermostat too then, takes a while to warm up.
I guess it's better to have it stuck open than stuck shut
My brother had a (lovely) Volvo Amazon many years back, and it had a roll down blind between the rad and the grill for cold winter months (like they have in Sweden). Can you imagine a modern 2 litre car with that much space under the bonnet! You could practically climb in and stand next to the engine for maintenance!
John _________________ If it aint broke, fiddle with it until it is!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
93 33 16v Mirtle Met
08 Fiat Grande Punto Exotica Red
90 Yamaha FZR600 Genesis- Silky white/red/blue |
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johnboy 16 Valve
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Joined: 26 Jun 2003 Posts: 1061 Location: margate U.K
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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mine heats up no problem, mite be the 7800rpms bigal.what do you think? joking aside.as bobbber said they do take some time,but not that long! i think your to kind to your 33 tho. you can give it the beans when there's heat in the engine .just not cold. you need to go to spa ![Wink](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) _________________ WODA WE NEED? MORE POWER!!
Alfa gt jtdm blackline
1990 S2 16v veloce sleeping!
2002 ts gtv the wifes now
1997 seadoo gsx 800
1999 freestyle superjet |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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lol, i cringe at the thought johnboy, i just cant do it, even though its frustrating.
I think i posted before that it takes 23 mins to get to running temp at idle.
I was wondering how long the oil takes to get to temperature, as we only see the water temps, if i could be convinced that i could cane it because the oil is up to temp before the water temp is, then maybe..... _________________ x2 33 16v
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johnboy 16 Valve
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Joined: 26 Jun 2003 Posts: 1061 Location: margate U.K
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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BigAl wrote: |
lol, i cringe at the thought johnboy, i just cant do it, even though its frustrating.
I think i posted before that it takes 23 mins to get to running temp at idle.
I was wondering how long the oil takes to get to temperature, as we only see the water temps, if i could be convinced that i could cane it because the oil is up to temp before the water temp is, then maybe..... |
lol
ive had the 16v in my car for six year's now,three trips to spa. lots of oil changes. just bloody drive it man. sorry the merlot's kicking in now ![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) _________________ WODA WE NEED? MORE POWER!!
Alfa gt jtdm blackline
1990 S2 16v veloce sleeping!
2002 ts gtv the wifes now
1997 seadoo gsx 800
1999 freestyle superjet |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Admin Site Admin
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Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 1223 Location: Stafford, UK
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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BigAl wrote: |
I was wondering how long the oil takes to get to temperature, as we only see the water temps, if i could be convinced that i could cane it because the oil is up to temp before the water temp is, then maybe..... |
Oil is likely to take FAR longer than the water to get up to temperature.
The flat 4 engine does have a pretty large surface area to help it keep cool. Put it this way, on an Sprint I drove it gently (50~60mph) down the motorway with no working water pump (pump seized and shredded the belt) without it seriously over heating. With that much cooling you can see why the thermostat makes so little difference.
All the best
Keith _________________ I owe, I owe, its off to work we go.
Bimota Forum
Stafford Christmas Lights
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Keith,
i had a waterpump seize, i had to keep pulling over and open the bonnett to let the engine cool down as the temp shot up, i was driving carefully as well. I will continue to do what i do. _________________ x2 33 16v
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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hey guys do both drain plugs on each head remove the same amount of coolent and if i drain only one side, which side should i do, will this be enough to lower the coolent level to remove the thermostat? _________________ x2 33 16v
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Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Personally I'd always remove both drain plugs. That way I can take the opportunity to wash as much muck out of the cooling system as possible, particularly concentrating on the heater core. You might not need to do this if your cooling system has been better maintained over its life.. _________________ "Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
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bobbber P4
Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2162 Location: The Greatest Town on Earth - Swadlincote, UK
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: |
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I always do both Al... don't do what I did though. Remove the RIGHT plugs!
Bob _________________ Fiat Bravo 165 Sport |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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ok guy, i will take off both correct plugs, my coolant is clean and doesnt need replacing, just need to get thermostat and wait for a warm day ![Rolling Eyes](images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif) _________________ x2 33 16v
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Whilst waiting for my thermostat, from my local small business car shop, i was thinking of clamping one of the radiator hoses, to simulate a closed thermostat, until it is up to running temp, which hose needs to be clamped?
I was told something along the lines, to check a thermostat is working properly, only one of the hoses will warm up from cold and the other will remain cold??
Can someone clarify this please? _________________ x2 33 16v
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think clamping hoses is not really a good idea. You'd be better off blocking the radiator air flow away from the fan for the time being.
The problem is the thermostat doesn't close hermetically below 80C so you can never get up to 80C if there's air flowing through the radiator.
Sure you can block the flow physically temporarily to get it to 80C, but you'll have to unclamp the hose to stop it overheating. As soon as you start driving the temp will drop back to 50-60C. _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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I don’t have a problem with taking the clamp off once its up to running temp, quicker I hope with a clamp on the correct hose. The car does get to running temps, although slowly. It does this when idling as well so putting cardboard isn’t what I’m after, thanks anyway.
so any idea on which hose?? _________________ x2 33 16v
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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The fat pipe that goes from the rad to the thermostat I suppose. _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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just to let you guys know that alfa part no 60504230 is common to fiat as well.
so i will be ordering it from a fiat dealer as all my alfa dealers seemed to have died a sudden death _________________ x2 33 16v
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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does anyone know if the thermostat will come off without damaging the gasket? I could only order a pack of 5 gaskets!! I cant remeber getting any gaskets last time i replaced a thermostat. _________________ x2 33 16v
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