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Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:09 am Post subject: Series 1 oil pressure gauge into series 2 car |
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I sent this rusty series 1 1.5QV to the demolition derby a while back.
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/alfa33/33profile/DERBY1.JPG
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/alfa33/33profile/DERBY5.JPG
Among the parts I grabbed off it first was the oil pressure and voltage gauges and the pressure sender from the engine block.
I decided to put the oil pressure gauge in my series 2 1.7QV.
I couldn't see a sensible location on the dash to install the gauge, so I thought mounting it on the a-pillar, boy racer style, would be best.
I took the gauge mechanism out of its housing and glued the backlight to the rear of the gauge frame. I bought a high-tech gauge pod to install it in (top of photo).
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/alfa33/33profile/DIAL_OUT.JPG
If you think my high-tech gauge pod resembles a towball cover, I choose to exercise my right to remain silent. However towball covers are very much cheaper than the nastiest purpose-built gauge pods....
Anyway, here's the gauge installed:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/alfa33/33profile/GGEDAY2.JPG
Gauge lit up at night:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/alfa33/33profile/GGE_N5.JPG
Full dash at night:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/alfa33/33profile/DASH_N4G.JPG
The gauge lights up brighter than the speedo etc because I didn't use a blue lens cover (which generates the green backlighting on all the other dials).
The oil pressure sender bolted straight onto the top of the engine block (its mounting point is normally plugged up by a blanking bolt in series 2 cars), and I found places to tap into the car's wiring to get power etc.
The gauge needed four wires:
Ground (obviously)
Acc (+12V when ignition is on)
Dash lighting (+12V when headlights are on)
Sender connection (goes to terminal on pressure sender in engine bay)
It worked the first time I tried it. The readings are unlikely to be accurate I guess. It shows about 6 bar max pressure when cold, 2 bar minumum when idling and hot, but it's more for interest, entertainment value and cool factor. I'm happy with it.
The gauge will probably confuse some boyracers.. "Far, bro, does this thing have a turbo? What kind of car is it, a Ford Laser? Aw, check it out! It's boosting 2 bar at idle! My mate's Evo doesn't even do that at full boost!" _________________ "Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:16 am Post subject: |
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hey ben
nice addition, where were the gauges in the series 1?
I also like the idea of the voltage gauge.
Will you be using that ser 1 again? It looked really mashed up, was it fun to watch, or did you feel a little sad every time it got hit?? _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:39 am Post subject: |
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BigAl wrote: |
where were the gauges in the series 1? |
In the centre console infront of the gearstick. Visible in this photo:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/alfa33/silverqv/DASH3S.JPG
Quote: |
I also like the idea of the voltage gauge. |
Ah yes so do I, but I already have one.
The horizontal strip of LEDs to the right of the '000' (digital tachometer), yellow fading into green, is a voltage gauge kitset:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/alfa33/33profile/DASH_N4G.JPG
I figured I didn't need two. I've gotta draw the line somewhere.
Quote: |
Will you be using that ser 1 again? It looked really mashed up, was it fun to watch, or did you feel a little sad every time it got hit?? |
Watch? I was driving!
It was a bit too mashed up to use again, even though it only died because of an impact to the front left taking out the ignition system. My cunning piece of right angle steel bolted under the lower radiator support safeguarded the timing belts.
The only thing I regretted was running out of time to prepare the car. It was out of tune and would foul the sparkplugs if left to idle, plus there was an exhaust leak right under the gearstick so it wasn't running its best. I'd have liked more power for the racing, and I've always wanted to do a custom exhaust on a 33 (4->2 twin pipes) and that car would have been the perfect opportunity.
Also if I'd relocated the ignition coil, I could have run the car until it was REALLY smashed... _________________ "Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
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Joelomint Alfa Sprint
Joined: 08 May 2004 Posts: 119 Location: London
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject: dials |
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The gauges on the S1 were in the center console infront of the gearstick. A bit like in the sud...
If you get another set ben, let me know as i would like to put those dials in my S1 SC.
Is there any chance the banger was a single carbed cloverleaf, and you removed the fuel pressure regulator? |
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Joelomint Alfa Sprint
Joined: 08 May 2004 Posts: 119 Location: London
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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ah, just read your post properly, sorry for the repetition |
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paulhide P4
Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham
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Oggie Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 811 Location: Whitehill
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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I have these guages in me shed if any one wants them!. for a small fee , things are really looking bleak at work. _________________ PHAT 33 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:06 am Post subject: Re: dials |
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Joelomint wrote: |
Is there any chance the banger was a single carbed cloverleaf, and you removed the fuel pressure regulator? |
You mean fuel flow meter for the trip computer, or did they have fuel pressure regulators?
The silver car was a twin carb.
I previously entered this series 2 1.7QV in two separate derbies:
Somebody had put a single carb engine in that. It was really awful when cold (listen to it if you want - 374kb mp3 http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/alfa33/partscar.mp3) but went well enough when warm. I should have grabbed the single carb intake manifold off that so Eddie W could do a supercharger conversion.. _________________ "Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
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Joelomint Alfa Sprint
Joined: 08 May 2004 Posts: 119 Location: London
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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hmmm, might be interested in that too...
according to the S1 manual, and the workshop manual i have, S1 one gold clover was a single carb, and the fuel regulator was attached to the bulkhead in the middle behind the carb.
was interested in obtaining one cos it would allow me to run a bigger carb or twins without having to install return fuel line and new tank...
do you still have the housing and the ammeter? |
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Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:32 am Post subject: |
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You mean the white housing and the voltage gauge (not ammeter) from this photo?
Yes, I still have those parts.
But no fuel flow meters or fuel pressure regulators or single carb manifolds. _________________ "Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:34 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
The oil pressure sender bolted straight onto the top of the engine block (its mounting point is normally plugged up by a blanking bolt in series 2 cars), and I found places to tap into the car's wiring to get power etc.
The gauge needed four wires:
Ground (obviously)
Acc (+12V when ignition is on)
Dash lighting (+12V when headlights are on)
Sender connection (goes to terminal on pressure sender in engine bay)
It worked the first time I tried it. The readings are unlikely to be accurate I guess. It shows about 6 bar max pressure when cold, 2 bar minumum when idling and hot, but it's more for interest, entertainment value and cool factor. I'm happy with it. |
Ben i am about to fit the dials into my ser3 can the feed for current low pressure warning light be used, or should i get another sender from a ser2 that will fit into the top middle of my block that has a blanking nut in it. You mention that it is not very accurate, can this be improved? _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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Oggie Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 811 Location: Whitehill
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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It can be improved by putting a capillary oil pressure gauge, no need for a switch, they take a direct feed of oil to the gauge, you can buy a switch with a hole for the oil line feed so you get an reading of pressure and it also doubles for the low oil warning light. _________________ PHAT 33 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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I was looking at a cheap option, can the catapillar ears be easily fitted, i guess they need a different type of dial, are they known to pop off and spurt oil everywhere? _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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Oggie Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 811 Location: Whitehill
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Proberbly as easy as fitting an electrical one. _________________ PHAT 33 |
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Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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BigAl wrote: |
Ben i am about to fit the dials into my ser3 can the feed for current low pressure warning light be used, or should i get another sender from a ser2 that will fit into the top middle of my block that has a blanking nut in it. |
I don't know if the low pressure warning light feed can be used - that might be a simple on/off pressure switch rather than a signal suitable to drive a gauge.
BigAl wrote: |
You mention that it is not very accurate, can this be improved? |
I'm just assuming it may not be accurate e.g. 4bar on the gauge might not mean 4bar in the engine. But it was helpful at a recent track day I went to, as once you know how to read it, it provides some indication of oil temperature and therefore when it's safe to start hooning! _________________ "Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Wahoo!!
Thanks to another member, i know have a sender, i connected it up last night and guess what, it didnt work
I only connected the - & + the wrong way round, doh!
It registers about 4 bar, is that correct?
I know have to make some white dials to match, make a surrounding, I'm thinking of putting it where the alfa diagnostic control panel is, and then im done, would be good to have an oil temp gauge as well.
Iain i still owe you some money for the gauges, i forgot at SAD and i guess you forgot to remind me, sorry. _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:40 am Post subject: |
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BigAl wrote: |
It registers about 4 bar, is that correct? |
Depends on engine rpm and oil temperature. You might get 4 bar when idling while the oil's cold, but it might take 2000rpm to get that pressure when the oil's hot.
Basically, needle moves around in interesting ways, and you watch it and feel slightly confused but happy because it's doing that important thing that it does.
"Look at it go!"
"What's it doing?"
"I don't know, but it's doing it!" _________________ "Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm looking forward to antohter thing to worry about lol.
The 4 bar reading was at start up and tick over with a hot engine. _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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On a ser 3 i found the following connectors and was told that the alfa control has 4 of these connectors. I was thinking that the loom might have a connector in the engine bay that i could connect to the oil pressure sender and one of these 2 connectors has power and possibly light illumination. Does anyone have any idea on the pin out of these 2 connectors?
_________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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Bellamachinna Alfa 33
Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 352 Location: Lisbon-Portugal
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Just got one of these gauge clusters.
One question.
What sender do i use?? I`ve got one from VDO, but not sure if it will make the oil press. gauge work.
Also, i´m afraid of using wrong sender, and "burning" my gauge.
Any ideas?
EDIT: looking at the rear of the cluster, the connector plug, seems to be similar to the central plug (red one) from the main cluster (rev counter & speedometer).
I`m i right? _________________ All'interno della mia macchina, vi sedete, tenete sopra e CHIUDETE IN SU... |
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Bellamachinna Alfa 33
Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 352 Location: Lisbon-Portugal
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Just fitted the gauge.
The voltimeter is working fine, but the oil pressure gauge is wrong.
When cold it shows 2 bar, and after warming up, it goes up to 6 bar.
Shouldn`t be the other way?? _________________ All'interno della mia macchina, vi sedete, tenete sopra e CHIUDETE IN SU... |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Bellamachinna wrote: |
Just fitted the gauge.
The voltimeter is working fine, but the oil pressure gauge is wrong.
When cold it shows 2 bar, and after warming up, it goes up to 6 bar.
Shouldn`t be the other way?? |
lol -of course unless you have some new magic oil where its nice and thin for good start ups in the cold and then thickens when hot!! _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Bellamachinna Alfa 33
Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 352 Location: Lisbon-Portugal
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
lol -of course unless you have some new magic oil where its nice and thin for good start ups in the cold and then thickens when hot!!
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That would be the invention of the century!!!!
I`m guessing the oil press. sender isn`t the correct one. I´m using a FAE sender with 2 connections (for gauge and oil press. light).
Previously i had a Giulia Gt Junior gauge (also made by Jaeger), with a VDO sender and it also worked this way (tre wrong way)
What type of "special" sender is needed to make this gauges work?
I`m guessing that a Sud or a Sprint sender would be the anwser, but i cant find any for sale...
Anyone, knows of some sender compatible with these gauges?
EDIT: The 75 senders wont fit, because the tread patern is different _________________ All'interno della mia macchina, vi sedete, tenete sopra e CHIUDETE IN SU... |
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