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baiones Alfa Sprint
Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Posts: 130 Location: Portugal
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:43 am Post subject: |
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I just saw this thread now: nice work!!
I've rebuilt my 1.7 engine to, 8 years ago, but it has only done 12k kms since...
It has been sold 7 years ago, and rebought again 4 years ago, and have been parked since i bought it again, has the licence plates were canceled...
It's now fully legal and working, but probably need some kind of maintenance has you have done to yours...
Here is when i first started it 6 months ago, to go to MOT and "re-licence" so it can be fully legal again.
( after oil / filters change, fuel pump replacement, and a cleaning on the sparkplugs. )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPUHF3FUu-4 _________________ Carpe diem!!
Baiones
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.5 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.7 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 s16 QV
ALFA ROMEO Sprint 1.3
ALFA ROMEO 156 SW "Train Edition" ( it's a JTD... ) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks baiones.
Luckily they are not so strick on the legal stuff here, so no MOT's.
Bad for the envirnoment and safety but good for classic car enthisiasts!
Love the induction sound of those carbs on your video.
I've opened my airbox to see how it sounds and performs.
Still having a dilemna what to do with the oil vapor cicuit.
keep it as a vacuum and suck up the sludge or change it and put a filter open to the air. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Come up with another solution keeping the vacuum and retaining an oil catch container with the 2 connectors inside the airbox that will lead to 2 small extra filters to avoid sludge getting into the carbs. Inside the airbox is a strong vacuum and will draw the vapor from the crankcase.
You can see the condenser spiral inside the T connector above the oil catch tank that will lead to the oil filler pipe.
The 4 small tubes will just remain pulling in clean filtered air from one of the trumpet connections.
This way I have reduced the sludge coming into the carbs and also enhanced the filter capacity maintaining the Vacuum to the crankcase.
I like it.
[url]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
[url]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
[url]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/url] _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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baiones Alfa Sprint
Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Posts: 130 Location: Portugal
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Have you tested that vacuum gadjet?
Does it work fine?
I have a friend who prepares and races Suds, and he keeps telling me that the connection to the oil entrance pipe should be kept because the engine needs some vacuum pressure on the crank case...
I really dont know what to believe, i'm curious about your thing... _________________ Carpe diem!!
Baiones
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.5 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.7 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 s16 QV
ALFA ROMEO Sprint 1.3
ALFA ROMEO 156 SW "Train Edition" ( it's a JTD... ) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I have a friend who prepares and races Suds, and he keeps telling me that the connection to the oil entrance pipe should be kept because the engine needs some vacuum pressure on the crank case...
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Haven't tested it yet and yes I heard the crank needs the vacuum also to suck out the nasty vapor.
This should work fine as the airbox will have a vacuum (very strong at higher revs) and will suck air out of the crankcase, also hopefully catch the oil particles in the white container before it enters the white cotton filtered outlet inside the airbox.
In theory it should work well retaining the vacuum but improving upon the original design.
Lets see. My car is in pieces right now. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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baiones Alfa Sprint
Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Posts: 130 Location: Portugal
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Ok, i understand now, just one thing.
Where are those 4 vacumm pipes geting the air from now?
Do they also have a connection to the air filter box? _________________ Carpe diem!!
Baiones
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.5 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.7 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 s16 QV
ALFA ROMEO Sprint 1.3
ALFA ROMEO 156 SW "Train Edition" ( it's a JTD... ) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Where are those 4 vacumm pipes geting the air from now?
Do they also have a connection to the air filter box? |
Planning to use the right trumpet inlet - this will lead to a T connection that splits to each carb, so inlet manifold>4-2-1 > trumpet vacuum connection.
Sucking in clean air but still part of the whole circuit.
In theory the same but just avoids the dirt coming in to the inlet manifolds. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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HELPPP
Big end shells issue.
Started to install the pistons today.
Placed the left bank pistons in and proceeded to attach the rod end with new big end shell bearings. Same size 0.20 or something like that.
Made sure they were aligned correctly and proceeded to tighten them just so they the ends fit together (not tight).
BUT I can't turn the crank when the ends are on. Appears the bearings are so tight. I don't know, but they are the same size.
Now have the old ones worn down so much that before I could turn it because they were looser?
Is it normal for the crank to be so tight or have I assembled them incorrectly?
I pressed them into the slots on the rods with ease and they aligned nicely with the ends.
the pistons slide in and out nicely without the ends on though or slightly loosened.
Measurement:
Old shells: 1.87-1.91 mm
New ones: 2.10 mm
Both are stamped with FM -20 (I took the old ones to the alfa supplier and they matched them!!) _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Reading through my manuals the clearance between the crank journals and rod end bearings should be 0.032 - 0.064mm.
I will measure the journals tomorrow and select the appropriate big end bearings, either standard or 0.010 inch oversize. (NOT 0.020! the inside diameter of the rod ends is 49.46mm with these oversized shells!).
So 66625RA standard or 0.010 depending on the readings I get tomorrow from the crank. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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49.99mm - 50.03mm between all 4 crank journals.
Standard size big end bearings?
Just measured the inside diameter of the old connecting rod half bearings also and the first reading was ~50.00mm.
The smallest oversize shell is 0.010 inch = 0.254mm!
I imagine these will be too tight also.
Am I correct in believing the standard size shell should measure 50.024 - 50.048mm?
0.010 inch oversize would make this 49.77mm - 49.794mm Way too tight for 49.99-50.03mm crank journals |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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First photo shows diameter of rod ends with old shells.
Second width of new shell they supplied (too big - 66625RA 0.020)
Third shows width of old shell (oversize 0.020 BUT not for alfa - some unknown stamp and make, so obviously he matched an unknown make to match the cranks).
[url]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/url]
[url]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/url]
[url]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/url] _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:05 am Post subject: |
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more info found (the standard shells look about right):
Part Number: 66625RA
Chemical Properties: Unleaded
Component Number: 66625RA For bearing clearance from: 0,02 mm
For housing diameter from: 53,7 mm
For shaft diamater from: 49,99 mm
Quantity Unit: Pair
Supplementary Article/Supplementary Info 2: Aluminium alloy on steel base
Thickness: 1,84 mm Next size up would be 2.094mm - too tight.
To bearing clearance: 0,07 mm
To housing diameter: 53,71 mm
To shaft diameter: 50 mm
Width: 17,8 mm |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:42 pm Post subject: Help! |
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Does the angle of the pump shaft look good? Supposed to be at 22 degrees at TDC.
[url]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
[url]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Moved the pump shaft one tooth back and forth and it varies greatly - by about 20 degrees!!
So my first attempt was spot on. There is no other slot that matches the 22 degrees at TDC.
Left head just put on now. Just got to torque the bolts up carefully in sequence and stages.
Then hopefully right head on later today or next weekend.
ONE QUESTION:
The inlet pipe that has nothing connected to it just below the dizzy hole in the lower picture. What is this for?? _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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RFlower Alfa 33
Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 432 Location: S of France
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Brit01 wrote: |
ONE QUESTION:
The inlet pipe that has nothing connected to it just below the dizzy hole in the lower picture. What is this for?? |
Are you referring to the bleed nipple on the clutch slave cylinder? _________________ Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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that's the one - just found out what it is.
cheers
Both heads on this afternoon. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Almost ready
Question about the head gaskets. I heard many 8v boxer gaskets are the thermosetting polymer type so should NOT be re-torqued. I have contacted The Gasket Shop.
Anyone else know if they are this type of material?
[url]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
[url]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
[url]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/url] _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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baiones Alfa Sprint
Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Posts: 130 Location: Portugal
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Are you talking about this piece ?
http://i.oodleimg.com/item/2529170773_1s?1304746870.jpg
It's made from bakelite, i dont know why there's any problem doing it...
BTW, looking great your engine... _________________ Carpe diem!!
Baiones
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.5 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.7 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 s16 QV
ALFA ROMEO Sprint 1.3
ALFA ROMEO 156 SW "Train Edition" ( it's a JTD... ) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Thanks.
I think the small picture you posted is the carb gasket insulator, plastic piece with paper gaskets either side.
I'm referring to the head gaskets.
(juntas de tapas - if you know spanish) _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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baiones Alfa Sprint
Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Posts: 130 Location: Portugal
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Brit01 wrote: |
Thanks.
I think the small picture you posted is the carb gasket insulator, plastic piece with paper gaskets either side.
I'm referring to the head gaskets.
(juntas de tapas - if you know spanish) |
Sorry, i misread what you've written...
If i understood correctly, you are wondering if you can "re-use" the head gasket.
I wouldnt do it, you'll probably end up with oil / water / combustion leaks... _________________ Carpe diem!!
Baiones
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.5 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 1.7 QV
ALFA ROMEO 33 s16 QV
ALFA ROMEO Sprint 1.3
ALFA ROMEO 156 SW "Train Edition" ( it's a JTD... ) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: |
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No sorry you misunderstood.
I have new gaskets of course and after the first heat cycle I'm asking if people are re-torquing the head bolts or not.
General consensus appears to be that people have not re-torqued after the first run and have had no problems. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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This was Guy Croft's advice. He's insisting that I re-torque.
Quote: |
You should not worry about this setup. If the regime is a simple torque sequence - tighten according to OE regime. Run up to temp, leave overnight. Next day with engine fully cold relax each bolt a tiny fraction in turn (don't loosen them all at once) and then torque up again. You may be interested to know that after final torque-up I always go round the bolts with a long T bar and do 'final settle' by hand. Iam not suggesting I have an usually skilled touch in that regard but one can easily feel if the bolts are secure and pull-up any that 'move'. I am talking 1/16 - 1/8 turn absolute tops. It may impose a higher torque but that doesn't matter as the recommended setting will be well below the level likely to cause thread damage or yield. Torque is related to induced stress only to within some 20% accuracy (based on a good lubrication regime) so you can see doing that can equalise them very satisfactorily.
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_________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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paulhide P4
Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham
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RFlower Alfa 33
Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 432 Location: S of France
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see any reason not to re-torque, except some bolts are a bit inaccessible.
[/u] _________________ Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
except some bolts are a bit inaccessible.
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You can say that again.
Managed to get almost the right length of extension and socket to reach the bottom bolts from above.
I use a 17mm socket but a 3/8 inch then an adapter 3/8-1/2 which then attaches to the torque wrench.
Couldn't find a 1/2 extension and 1/2 socket short enough to fit in between the cam support and car frame.
Someone told me I could loosen the engine mountings and slide it to the side but that may cause damage to the rubber bushings I believe. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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