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Blueskev Alfasud
Joined: 12 Jul 2012 Posts: 33 Location: Kent
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:00 pm Post subject: Distributor stuck in the block |
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Evening chaps, another frustrating afternoon on i.e..... Today I did a compression test and tried to set the timing. The compression test results were 150,160,115 and 120. A bit of variation but all were in the green segment of my tester.
There is only 1 timing mark on the flywheel so Im assuming this is the timing mark rather than TDC. With the vac advance disconnected and plugged, the strobe showed that the timing was quite a bit before the timing mark and also that it is wandering quite a bit. Im not sure whether the movement is due to the lumpy running or causing it, but when I tried to adjust the timing I found that the dizzy is solid in the block. Access is pretty poor so I guess I'll have to remove a few hoses etc to get at it properly another day.
Has anyone else had this and is the dizzy likely to come out without destroying it? Im thinking either trying to lever it under its body against the block, or hooking something round it and levering to lift from above.
Regards,
Kev. |
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Ian M Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 911 Location: Bath Somerset
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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I would try a few gentle taps around it first, may just loosen it. _________________ Presntly own
Red Abarth 500c |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:27 am Post subject: |
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I would check valve timing before trying to move the distributor. Once again those compressions would suggest to me(sorry for being boring) a timing belt out by a tooth or two.
What engine is it? Is the ignition electronic or old style points? _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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Bobkelso Alfa Sprint
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 190 Location: Milan - Italy
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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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One friend here initially did a mistake with the phase regulation
on its boxer because he find only 1 timing mark on the flywheel
but after being advised he did a new search and he find the others
timing marks, don't know if you already know,
the marks scheme on carburated boxer alfa 33 usually is:
- TDC is a very light "T" mark on the flywheel, usually you cannot
see it if you don't clean the flywheel with some tool
- distributor advance at idle (may be without air advance connected)
and at high revs are "I" mark (about 8-10 degree from T)
and "II" mark (about 30-40 degree from T )
- position for safe moving valves and for regulate the right
tension on belts is a "V" (more than a "V", is a "triangle" mark ,
I don't remember but probably about 45 degree before or
after the T mark)
- "T" and "V" are also on ignited boxers, instead "I" and "II",
not sure, I think are present only in the ignited boxer with a dizzy
(at least the "I" mark)
When I have to move a blocked dizzy, I put some svitol/D40,
gently taps on it for a bit, and after some time I move it
by turning it with some heavy tool (big and long pliers acting
on the small or, more easy, on the bigger diameter section;
if acting on the bigger diameter you can to use some rubber
strip in between to avoid visible scratches),
some space problem working in the car, but to free the dizzy,
turning it is very more easy and safe than try to lift it |
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Blueskev Alfasud
Joined: 12 Jul 2012 Posts: 33 Location: Kent
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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the answers guys, its an injected 1.7ie without a cat. The dizzy is electronic. On the flywheel I found the triangle mark and only one other mark, a single line. Im using this line as the timing mark.
Eagle3, the two lower compressions were on different banks so both belts would have to be out? It runs so well above 2000rpm that Im thinking they must be correct?
Cheers,
Kev. |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:03 am Post subject: |
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If they're on opposite banks probably not the belts I suppose.
Quite a big difference between the two pairs but strange that the two pairs are virtually identical.
If it runs so well above 2000 it's unlikely to be an ignition timing issue IMO. Maybe air/fuel problem. Just guessing.
Just wondering would a cracked injecteur seal(o ring) cause a drop in compression?? _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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mg907 Alfasud
Joined: 12 Dec 2011 Posts: 38 Location: Italy
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Kev,
Assuming your engine is a 8V one equipped with a bosch distributor,
turning the engine by hand, you should be able to reach the following situation:
1) The distributor rotor is positioned as the red line in the picture overlaps the sign highlighted by the green arrow.
https://picasaweb.google.com/110916262030376023265/33?authkey=Gv1sRgCI7_tP6byfz15QE#5931252159317376802
2) The T mark on the flywheel is aligned with the mark on the engine cover
3) The marks on cam pulleys of the two banks are visible through the small holes covered by the rubber caps
You should see the T mark when everything is set as above.
In my car those marks correspond and I suppose everything should be statically OK. Maybe dinamically as well,
because the engine starts easily, idles perfectly as soon as warmed a little, and runs smoothly at every revs.
Mario |
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Blueskev Alfasud
Joined: 12 Jul 2012 Posts: 33 Location: Kent
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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mg907 wrote: |
Hi Kev,
Assuming your engine is a 8V one equipped with a bosch distributor,
turning the engine by hand, you should be able to reach the following situation:
1) The distributor rotor is positioned as the red line in the picture overlaps the sign highlighted by the green arrow.
https://picasaweb.google.com/110916262030376023265/33?authkey=Gv1sRgCI7_tP6byfz15QE#5931252159317376802
2) The T mark on the flywheel is aligned with the mark on the engine cover
3) The marks on cam pulleys of the two banks are visible through the small holes covered by the rubber caps
You should see the T mark when everything is set as above.
In my car those marks correspond and I suppose everything should be statically OK. Maybe dinamically as well,
because the engine starts easily, idles perfectly as soon as warmed a little, and runs smoothly at every revs.
Mario |
Hi Mario,
Thank you for the info, yes its an 8V with Bosch distributor. I will check all is aligned at the weekend.
Cheers,
Kev. |
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Blueskev Alfasud
Joined: 12 Jul 2012 Posts: 33 Location: Kent
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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eagle3 wrote: |
If they're on opposite banks probably not the belts I suppose.
Quite a big difference between the two pairs but strange that the two pairs are virtually identical.
If it runs so well above 2000 it's unlikely to be an ignition timing issue IMO. Maybe air/fuel problem. Just guessing.
Just wondering would a cracked injecteur seal(o ring) cause a drop in compression?? |
Hi Eagle3,
I have been looking for air leaks because this is what it felt like to me. The one thing I haven't checked is injector seals mainly because Im not familiar with petrol injectors (despite working on diesel ones for my day job!) and Im not confident in removing them.
Sounds like I need to check them....
Many thanks,
Kev. |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:09 am Post subject: |
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Certainly easier to remove than a diesel injector.
Not sure whether they're the same on my 1.3 but I managed to get them out without removing the inlet manifold. I would recommend getting them cleaned - it doesn't cost a fortune. You might even have an ultrasound cleaner at work!
http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/manuals/Fuel_Ignition_Exhaust/electroinjectors.pdf _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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Admin Site Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 1223 Location: Stafford, UK
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Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
Have a major nightmare getting the dizzy out of my lhd 1.3 (and once swapped over the darn thing still won't start ).
Landed up draining the oil, taking the sump off, taking the oil pump off and then drifting the dizzy out from below.
All the best
Keith _________________ I owe, I owe, its off to work we go.
Bimota Forum
Stafford Christmas Lights
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Bobkelso Alfa Sprint
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 190 Location: Milan - Italy
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89 Alfa 75 Alfa Arna
Joined: 25 Sep 2013 Posts: 11 Location: Dunedin New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Slip Jaw Pliers (very big ones) also good for removing oil filters that are over tightened and snap filter wrenches. _________________ 1989 Alfa Romeo 75 twinspark, Alfa Romeo 33 1.5ie |
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Bobkelso Alfa Sprint
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 190 Location: Milan - Italy
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mg907 Alfasud
Joined: 12 Dec 2011 Posts: 38 Location: Italy
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