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jbg Alfa Arna
Joined: 02 Dec 2013 Posts: 5
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:41 am Post subject: Gearbox oil fill plug stuck |
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Decided to change gearbox oil today, and even though I know better, made the mistake of taking the drain plug out before the fill plug.
The oil that came out was pretty had it, so I'm glad I'm changing it (recently acquired this 33, a 1988 model with the 1.5 engine).
However, I can't get the fill plug out! Mine is a 17mm hex bolt (I hear some are 12mm allen, which I'd prefer). It's in a very awkward position, but I've tried:
* ring spanner and brute force, both from above and below
* socket with universal joint to clear nearby parts and a pipe over the handle to extend it with more leverage
* heaps of penetrating oil
* gentle taps with a mallet
The bolt is rounding off from all the attempts, so now a 12-point socket or ring spanner just turns on the bolt. A six-point ring spanner bites, but I cannot get it to turn even with the most force I'm able to apply in the small space available.
The only idea I have left is to epoxy a sacrificial socket onto the bolt head to form a permanent bond, use that with a long bar to undo the bolt without any slipping, and then replace the bolt.
Are there any other ways to approach this? If I do the above, what should I replace the bolt with? (Or should I just leave the sacrificial socket on the bolt!)
(My other mistake was starting the job with the 33 blocking my 146ti in our tandem garage. Once I realised I wouldn't be able to start the 33 today, I had to very carefully shunt it out of the garage using the 146ti so that I could go to work!) |
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john 33_16v 16 Valve
Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1406 Location: herts, uk
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
I doubt it will give you enough leverage from what you've already tried but if you can get a decent bite with your 6 point ring spanner and it's a combination IE the other end is open ended you can hook another ring spanner over the open end mouth to double your leverage
If you can get the bugger out replace with an allen headed one- try alex 33 bits.
Good luck
John _________________ If it aint broke, fiddle with it until it is!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
93 33 16v Mirtle Met
08 Fiat Grande Punto Exotica Red
90 Yamaha FZR600 Genesis- Silky white/red/blue |
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paulhide P4
Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:47 am Post subject: |
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If you can get enough bite, use a scissor jack pushing onto the end of the spanner/ratchet to apply as much force as needed from underneath.
(and make sure you are turning the right way!) _________________ Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188 |
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lee16v 16 Valve
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 1429 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:48 am Post subject: |
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If either of the above does not bring you joy then you could try applying some heat from a blow torch and give it some shock treatment from a hammer........all depending on your clearance though. |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe a 21/32" imperial socket (a bit smaller than 17 mm - 16 and a half-ish) will just fit on after you filed the rough bits off the bolt..
Use a lump hammer and tap both ways initially - it might just loosen.
It's also good to leave the wd40 a day or so to let it do its work. _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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Edward Alfa 33
Joined: 21 Sep 2003 Posts: 307 Location: Bristol
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Heat… it works really well. Heat it up a few times - nice and hot. Don't set fire to the gearbox oil or the carpets inside the car.
Try and drop the gearbox down by undoing the two bolts at the end of the extension shaft - better access.
Give it a few really good whacks with a decent hammer. (end on - if you can get the swing room) Good for breaking chemical bonds.
Hammer on an imperial socket - as Eagle 3 suggests - it is pretty much all that they are good for. Grind the curve off first (from the socket) - so that you get maximum purchase on what is left of the bolt faces.
If you use a ring spanner perhaps line it with quite a few layers of tin foil. It takes up the gaps and creates a tighter fit. If you use a ring spanner and you can keep it on there - and not slipping, give the head of the ring spanner a few really good taps (and I mean good!) with a hammer (to the outside of the ring) as you apply the increasing torque. Remember - righty tight - lefty lucy!
Get a piece of decent square bar and weld it to the nut - if you can get in there. (the heat from welding will probably do most of the work)
(get a sharp bolster and the right hammer, angle the blade of the bolster just right, dig into the bolt, hitting from below, cut into the bolt head in the opposite direction to the bolt tightening up. It does work - but you have to know what you are doing. Perhaps use a nut splitter to get you started)
Failing that - sit back - put the kettle on - buy my spare gearbox! _________________ The faster the better. |
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lee16v 16 Valve
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 1429 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Or you could try some heat............ |
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john 33_16v 16 Valve
Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1406 Location: herts, uk
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Raising the temperature of the plug considerably might work...
_________________ If it aint broke, fiddle with it until it is!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
93 33 16v Mirtle Met
08 Fiat Grande Punto Exotica Red
90 Yamaha FZR600 Genesis- Silky white/red/blue |
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Edward Alfa 33
Joined: 21 Sep 2003 Posts: 307 Location: Bristol
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:40 am Post subject: |
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This could turn into a bit of hot topic….. _________________ The faster the better. |
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jbg Alfa Arna
Joined: 02 Dec 2013 Posts: 5
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:07 am Post subject: |
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All sorted!
Found a kind of socket set called a "pass-through socket set" which goes around the socket instead of on the end, which gave me enough room to put the socket straight on the bolt without having to use a universal joint to clear nearby metal.
Crucially, the 17mm socket that came in that set was six-point, so it bit on the mangled bolt head. Couldn't get enough leverage by hand but I was able to use my bottle jack to apply force to the wrench and it came loose!
Will replace with an Allen bolt if I can find one, or a hex bolt but won't do it up to gorilla torque!
Thanks for the suggestions! |
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paulhide P4
Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Good stuff.
Yes, see if Alex Poulter has any spares, although I think allen key bolts are worse.
If he doesn't I'll look in my bolt bag and search for Edward's request too. _________________ Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188 |
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lee16v 16 Valve
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 1429 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Nice job. Glad you sorted it.
paulhide wrote: |
I think allen key bolts are worse.
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I agree with Paul. A hex bolt is far better in this circumstance, just don't over tighten as you say. |
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Edward Alfa 33
Joined: 21 Sep 2003 Posts: 307 Location: Bristol
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Errr…. did anyone say, allen key bolts are rubbish. _________________ The faster the better. |
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lee16v 16 Valve
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 1429 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I've looked back Edward........Think you could be the first.......good point made. |
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