Alfa Pages

[Serpent]

Who thinks which is faster on track?? And why?? 33 1.7 QV/16v and 75 2.0l 8v/16v. I have full confidence the 33 will take lead but theory is not supporting it.

[Errol]

Hmm, well, its RWD vs FWD. The 33 16v is lighter and is more ' throwable ' into corners, but wont be able to power out like a 75 2.0 litre would. In a straight line, I think the 33 should outrun it, because the 2.0 litre isnt powerful enough to cope with the 75s body weight. Should be interesting though Ive outrun a 75 2.0 TS very easily.
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91 Alfa Romeo 33 16v * SOLD*
Lowered 45mm
15 x 7 inch advanti wheels
Falken 195 low profile
K&N Pod filter
Cannon 2inch exhaust from cat-back with 3inch tip.

[Ravi]

Having owned a 1979 2.0 Alfetta, I would say that the only place the 33 would win on a track would be from about 50 km/h - 100 km/h.

The 2.0 twin cams are seriously torquey engines and i used to take big 6 cylinder cars in 1st and 2nd gear. The 33 seems to come alive towards the top of 2nd and 3rd gear, and would probably be quicker to 100 km/h.

However, out of corners, for top end and sheer track speed I think the perfectly balanced 75 would come up trumps. The handling of those cars never ceases to amaze me - with the gearbox at the back the weight distribution is 50:50, allowing for beautiful drifting.

In the seriously twisty stuff, however, the 33 will reign - and that's where I think the fun is!
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1986 33 QV

Looking to upgrade to a 16v?...

[Peter D]

I have both Alfasud (which equals Alfa 33) and Alfa 75.

My experience is, that a Alfa 75 2.0 or 2.0 Twin Spark (there is no Alfa 75 16V) does not have a change at all on a twisty road or racetrack when facing an Alfa 33 16V.

We have 8 trackdays a year in our Alfa-club, an there we record the times. A standard Alfa 75 2.0 (or TS) have never won over a standard Alfa 33 16V.

The only occasion, where a 75 wins something, is the first 0-50 km/h when the road is wet, and the 33 16V struggles for grip.

Ciao
Peter (DK)

[Guest]

[Guest]

how about the 3.0 V6 vs 1.7 16v?

[Peter D]

An Alfa 75 3.0 will be faster in a straight line.

The Alfa 33 will be (a little) faster around a corner.


Peter (DK)

[serpent]

But the "little faster" on straight will leave the 33 far behind.

[Boltik]

Alfa 33 and Sud are not equals . They have same mechanics, but different suspention and chassis stiffnes

[Peter D]

Yes Sud's are better than 33, but a 33 still corners better than a 75.

And about the "little": It still depends on how long/many straights and how tight/many corners you have. It is not so that a 75 3.0 is always outrunning a 33 16V.

Peter (DK)

[joey]

in regard to the first question, the 33 1.7 16v will eat a 2.0 TS 75.

if you believe the alfa press, the 16v 33 takes just 8sec 0-100kph vs the 75's 9+sec...

in regards to handling, more to the point, cornering speeds, 50:50 aint all that. the thing that sophisticated suspensions or even computer aided traction control cannot help is the laws of momentum. because the 33 weighs so much less than a 75, 20% less, it will always be more "flickable" and able to carry speed into tight corners...

what 50:50 does do however, is give the driver a "neutral" handling stance and full confidence to press into corners much harder than a car of that specification and size usually could/should. so in practice (theory?) the average driver can be made to look good driving an alfa rear transaxle because he can focus more on driving without having any nasty handling traits on the back of his mind, like say an early 911 driver would..

that said, when it does break loose at the back it can get ugly...

as for 33 16v vs 3.0 75, the 0-100 accel times are similar thanks to the long gearing of the 3.0 (3.55:1 diff), but up top, at higher speeds of course, the v6 is very fast and torquey... so as peter said, it would depend on the track.. the 3.0 hasnt the best diff for racing but on most tracks with significant high speed straights, i would imagine a 3.0 victory.

although my particular experience is std alfasud vs gtv6, the difference is between night and day... the sud is (nearly) some 400kg lighter !! to put that in perspective that makes the gtv 1.5x heavier than the sud. so imagine even the sublime handling gtv6 at 1875kg (1.5x its std weight), and even that would handle the corners badly, rear transaxle or not..


that said, as fun as the sud may be, i perfer the gtv6 everytime.

cheers,

joe

[Boltik]

[Peter D]

How shall I persuade you?

No-one has officially meassured cornering speed.

I own a 75 (a 75 Turbo Evoluzione, no. 343 of 500) and 3 Alfasud. And I have several times tried Alfa 33, both on street and track, including Nürburgring (on which I have a total milage of 30.000 km).

We have a lot of trackdays in our Alfa-club (8 each year), and I can only judge from looking at people at these trackdays, and comparing their times.

Still remember we are talking about street-cars. I will not say anything about a pure race 33 (if they excist) vs. a race 75 (they are there, and a lot).

Peter (DK)

[Ravi]

I was thinking of letting this debate go - but i'm gonna just jump back in there and say this:

I have had an Alfetta (which is almost identical to a 75), my dad has a 105 GTA, I now have a 33 and my next door neighbour has two suds - I have driven all of them a lot and pretty hard.

I'm no track driver, but I would like to consider myself a decent driver. When pushed into very tight corners, I found the sud to be the best handling - by far. In the really tight and twisty stuff you can't beat the go-kart like steering and handling of the suds. My 33 feels absolutely sloppy by comparison.

However, when it comes to long, sweeping bends I couldn't fault the Alfetta. It was just so predictable and basically just... beautiful! The 105 had that lovely creamy twin spark engine, gearchange and a nice stiff chassis, but there was too much understeer and then dramatic oversteer in my opinion. The 33 and suds are great for front drivers, but one little slip up on the throttle and you are oversteering more than you want and in serious trouble!

I know 50:50 aint all that, and to be honest, I have only driven a 16V 33 once, but from the Alfas I know and love the Alfetta was far too torquey and responsive to be beaten on anything but a very windy track by a (series 1 - in perfect nick) 33.

But that's just my lay opinion.
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1986 33 QV

Looking to upgrade to a 16v?...

[Guest]

[Serpent]