View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
RFlower Alfa 33

Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 432 Location: S of France
|
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:14 pm Post subject: Water pump removal |
|
|
Hi
Does anyone know a good way to remove a tight water pump? The last one I took out of the Sprint I practically destroyed. I rotated it back & forth by tapping it harder and HARDER, then resorted to a pipe wrench on the front of it and a 2m cheater pipe. There has to be another way.
I coated the new one with silicone grease before replacing, but now have to remove the one in the 33, which looks like it's been there from new.
Cheers _________________ Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F) |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf

Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
|
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
I got the mechanics to change mine and they showed it to me afterwards - practically destroyed.
Apparently it took a bit of persuading (with a hammer or similar) to come out.
Does it matter if you destroy the old one, assuming you're going to replace it anyway? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
RFlower Alfa 33

Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 432 Location: S of France
|
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Water pump removal |
|
|
Ben_nz wrote: |
Does it matter if you destroy the old one, assuming you're going to replace it anyway? |
I don't like to work on my cars with blacksmiths' tools; anyway, I don't really believe it when I'm told parts are not repairable - sometimes you're somewhere you have to repair things. I don't usually use garages as mechanics have mostly been replaced with spare parts changers.
Hey, - maybe it's only unrepairable because you can't get it out without wrecking it.....  _________________ Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F) |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
James F Alfa Arna
Joined: 18 Oct 2003 Posts: 23 Location: Peak District / North Lincs
|
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:13 pm Post subject: water pump removal |
|
|
Hi
Our local Alfa guys use a slide hammer to remove these, but they also often have to resort to breaking them up in situ as they do really stick in place!
Better a wrecked pump (and I am not sure what / how you'd fix on one) than a wrecked engine! _________________ cheers
James F
Series 3 16v SportWagon |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
paulhide P4

Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham
|
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Have removed three of these intact. Takes a bit of work and patience, but use a good piece of wood (which slowly disintegrates) between the pump and a good hammer hitting one face at a time until eventually you get enough movement to rock the pump out. Definitely a pig of a job, just takes patience.  _________________ Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
guest Guest
|
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:18 pm Post subject: water pump |
|
|
Trying to get one out today. Thanks for everyones posts. I thought it was just me, its stuck in tight! And I've got two seized bolts, so I've cut the pump body away around them. I will deal with them later!
Was trying to do it with the cam belt attached but you need to get it off.
Will report back later. Waz , Tasmania |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
waz Guest
|
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:13 am Post subject: waz again |
|
|
Had to take bumper off and get a slide hammer onto it. Destroyed the pump .......came out in 5 bits, impeller smashed through the pump body. One bolt so seized I spent hours drilling it all out but I saved the thread. Only nicked the mating surface once. Took some patience. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Quest Guest
|
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:08 pm Post subject: Waterpump |
|
|
Hi
Just took one out of engine. Prepared well with chisel, heavy hammer, glasses and beer. Opened the bolts and knocked the pump sideways, it turned alittle. Took a good grip of the pump and pulled, it dropped in my hands . Had to sit down laughing. Opened an installation beer and checked why the pump was not stuck. The pump has somekind of paint- coating on contact surfaces, it was totally clean and spotless. I drove the car about 80k kilometers, several years, so it is not a new pump.
Well, drank the beer anyway.
TimoJ |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
RFlower Alfa 33

Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 432 Location: S of France
|
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi
In the good old days mechanics used white lead paste to stop metal joints sticking, maybe that's what it was. I know it works on boat propellor to shaft taper joint, even in salt water.
As mentioned earlier I've been using silicone grease on the water pumps, but have not yet had to remove one which I have installed.
The best thing to use, on threads and side of pump body, is chrome dioxide paste, which is bright yellow. It is used routinely by (good) yacht riggers to avoid stainless steel bolts seizing into aluminium parts such as masts, as really expensive work can result if not used.
I bought a quarter kilo tin years ago from Rylands, who supply paint pigments. I've used less than half of it, but it's always on the boat when I need it in the garage!
BTW I don't think copper based anti-seize grease is a good idea because of possible electrolytic action with aluminium parts.
It also seems a bad idea to have a brass impellor in the aluminium pump. This may be the cause of the pump body corroding into the engine block when the coolant is not good quality, e.g. made up with tap rather than distilled water.
I've seen some pumps with plastic impellors, but don't know if any Alfa pumps have these. _________________ Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F) |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Guest
|
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It took the mechanic repeated attempts over the course of 2 days to get the water pump out of my P4.
I wonder whether it would be possible to weld a strip around the inside somehow and wait for it to cool and contract. I don't know what the pumps look like myself, so have no idea whether that's a mildy stupid or very stupid suggestion  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf

Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
|
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now my water pump's leaking, and sounding sick.
Do I dare try replacing it myself, and risk not being able to remove it and then getting the cam timing wrong when putting the timing belt back on?
Do I take this chance to remove the whole engine (something I've never done), and get it a full overhaul, to fix compression, clutch noises etc?
Or do I just pay a mechanic to change the water pump?
Should I get the timing belts changed at the same time, or do they not get damaged by hot coolant leaking on them?
-Ben |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
paulhide P4

Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham
|
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
The cambelts need to be removed to change the pump, although in the Haynes manual one of the belts is slackened and taken out of the way then put back afterwards, but if you are doing this it is probably better to simply use the time to replace the belts. _________________ Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
stedee Alfa 33

Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 364 Location: brighouse
|
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
a mechanic will charge you a bomb because there is alot of work to do just to access it eg,remove bumper and grill ,radiator, camcovers(just removing the bumper can be a b**** - it has those stupid square nuts with clips to hold them in place which have a habit of twisting when you are trying to undo the bolts, i found out the hard way!!!!.
definitely change the belts ,could save you a disaster. _________________ brum brum |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf

Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
|
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
None of my manuals tell me how to set the cam timing on a hydraulic tappet engine, and yesterday my car decided to leak much faster, losing a kettle worth of water while it was parked at work.
I think it heard me talking to the mechanic on the phone and was trying to tell me something.
<melodramatic Italian car accent> "Heya, I'ma so sick! I'ma soon gonna die! But I know a veery good place where they fixa me up properly, yes?"
Meantime I'm having to cycle to work, so maybe I'll forget the rebuild and just get the water pump done for me. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ZeNiTh-PbArM Alfa 33

Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 388 Location: Paris, France
|
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi
cam timing on hydraulic tappet engine is straightforward :
put crank at tdc and be sure to see the two notches in the cam sprocket through the hole in the cover.
regards,
zp |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf

Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
|
Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
a mechanic will charge you a bomb because there is alot of work to do just to access it.. |
The mechanic's gonna charge me a bomb because it took him six hours to replace, and most of that time was trying to get it out of the block! He told me beforehand that it usually took 2~3 hours but varied up to "however long it takes" if the waterpump wanted to be difficult.
I would have used a jackhammer if it hadn't budged after 30 minutes..
On the plus side, I'm now driving a Fiat Punto EX 75 (or something) courtesy car. Almost everything not related to going fast is better in the Fiat - courtesy light, wipers, ventilation fan, heater, gearshift, brake pedal, side mirror adjusters, fuel gauge, blah blah blah. The sound effects and x-factor of the 33 certainly have their price...  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|