Alfa Pages

[Wizz]

Hi guys.
This is my first post at the Alfa Pages! \^_^/
I've stopped by this place a few times since I bought my first car ever, an Alfa Romeo 33 1,5 IE - And what a car. =) I love it.
Of course, theres been a few problems, and now its the gearbox.

The problem is the same as with everybody else, the synchro in 2nd gear is crunchy. So I decided to try and find a used gearbox for a replacement. I managed to find one fairly cheap (about £60), but after switching it over, it turned out to be even worse than the old one.
So now I've decided to repair the original one - replace the synchro etc.
But since I haven't worked on it before, I was wondering if anybody out there has any nice pictures / schematics / tips on doing this?

I'd love any tips anybody has to offer! =)
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE

[Buck Bundy]

Are you sure you want to bother. You will need a load of Alfa special tools, and I'm told it isn't easy.

Buck
_________________
Sprint Veloce 1.5 - Ebay £310!!! (In need of TLC)

[dd (guesting)]

Cheaper than fixing the synchros is to ensure that the gear change
linkage is 100%
Replace all the bushes and ensure it is aligned correctly
- It does make a big difference.
What appears to be synchro problems can be solved via
ensuring the linkage from gear stick to selector rod
is functioning 100%
-- dd

[ZeNiTh-PbArM]

hi!

as previously said, the gear linkage is critical but too often neglected.
besides, if you plan a gearbox rebuild, it shouldn't bee too difficult.
when i was about to replace worn synchros on my good ol' 75, everyone told me it was a very difficult thing to do. Listening to them, the job would require many hours of work, lots of special tools, would prove impossible to do, and so on. Well i didn't care and gave it a try. The rebuild is fairly simple, the most annoying part of the work being the cleaning of all the parts.
having a look at the 33 gearbox, i'm pretty sure it would be no big deal to do, it's build on the same principles. The syncro removal will require a good pair of circlip pliers, and the fork pin removal/refitting is said to be a little tricky.
apart from that, it shouldn't be too hard a work.

regards,
zp

[Wizz]

Allrighty. Thanks for the advice on the linkage - I'll be sure to check it out.

Well, regardless of my not having the correct tools for the job, I'm gonna give it a try. Heck, the only thing I'll end up wasting is my own time - thats not so bad.
I must admit, the linkage assembly seem to be rather.. weak, and somewhat loose. I would have preferred it if the gears were just as stiff as in the 75. But hey, once you get used to it, its actually quite comfortable.

Thanks for the encouraging words, Zenith.
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE

[Wizz]

Heh, actually. As the gearbox is now, It's so bad that neither of my parents are able to get it into first or second gear.
I've allready gotten used to it, after driving with the new gearbox for about a month or so. Funny how fast you adapt to stuff like that..

Well, since I live with my parents (being 18 and all), my mother likes to borrow my '33 every once in a while. She's been very reluctant to do so since the gearbox-change. So actually, she's the one urging me to fix it.
Of course, I can see the point.. Being in a situation where you need acceleration in order to avoid an accident from standing still, you'd hate to find that you're in 3rd gear, rather than first.
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE

[ZeNiTh-PbArM]

hi!

you can have a look at the pictures from my topic on the '75 gearbox overhaul, it's all here : http://alfaimola.free.fr/twinspark/boite/index.html
the principles governing the 33 gearbox are pretty much the same, i think the main difference is the one-piece casing on the 33 ; hence you'll have to slide the axles all the way out then back in, progressively inserting the gears.
synchro replacement is similar, inner linkage is slightly different.
if you happen to take some pictures of your overhaul, please let me know, since this could be useful info (my '33 gearbox has been running 370 000 kms so far without any repair, and i fear trouble may come someday)

regards,
zp

[gritsop]

Hi,

370000kms?
Has your gearbox only done so many kms (is it a second hand one) or along with the car?

I'm curious because a friend of mine has done with his 33 (model same with mine 4/1991) around 290000kms with the same engine and gearbox (never overhauled or repaired). After all, if his car had brain then it would have commited suicide - he has never maintained it (4 years the same spurk plugs the least to mention) BUT it keeps going and going.

Maybe I should then say boxers forever

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[Wizz]

Hi again.

ZP, my dad sends many thanks for the great pictures of the '75 gearbox - He's a '75 driver. He was very impressed with the collection of pictures. =)

Regarding some pictures of my '33 overhaul. Yeah, sure, I'll try and take some during the progress.

By getting my hands on a larger wrench, we were able to get the nut on the main axle off. Only to discover that we now have to dissasemble the diff, and then slide the axle backwards, and take off the gears one by one.
Oh well.
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE

[ZeNiTh-PbArM]

hi!

Thanks, i liked my topic on the gearbox too. i wrote it for everyone who thinks it's too complicated to do it himself...
In fact, there's nothing magical or mystic in gearboxes, so the job is often not that difficult.
I was thinking i would rebuild my '33 gearbox before my '75 gearbox, since my good ol' 33 has done 368 000 kms on that engine and gearbox (and mainly the rest, too...). i've been doing regular gearbox oil changes, have been replacing the clutch (120 000 kms ago). I wouldn't say the 2nd gear never crunches, but i learnt the art of Alfa driving, and i think i'll have to cover a couple hundred thousand kilometers more before i'll have the joy of rebuilding it...
say hi to your dad for me and enjoy your overhaul!

regards,
zp

[John Hannen]

I get the impression that if I get my 33 to 333,333 kms it won't be a record based on your posting. Please tell me what I need to achieve to get the record? By the way, I'm at 320,000kms with only engine work being thereplacement of a head gasket (passenger side at 170,000kms) and recently replacing: tyres, front discs, clutch (2nd replacement since I've had the car), brake pads and rear shockers. The gear box, as far as I', aware ist still original, but does crunch if I try to shift too quickly. Engine still hits rev limiter witout any problems and will quite happily go 10,000 kms between oil and filter change.

[gritsop]

Hi,

It seems that your Alfa still has many kms to perform and years to live ...
So, maintain it and it won't let you down.

Viva Italia

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[Wizz]

Okay then! I've recieved the new parts for my gearbox!
Damn, they sure don't come cheap.
Approx. £250 for:
- 5 Synchronizing rings
- 1 Speed control fork (the one between 1st and 2nd was pretty busted)
- 1 Nut (The big one at the outer part of the axle)
- The usual assortment of gaskets and stuff

Anyways, I got the new parts today, and allready I've changed the synchronizing rings, mounted the axle, mounted all the selection forks, rods etc. and actually, It's capable of changing gears again! IT'S ALIVE!
So, next up is remounting of the diff. etc....

Oh well! I sure hope it helps.
And just to make things even better, I'm somewhat under time-pressure. I have to attend a semi-race-thingey by next weekend, and it would be really nice to have the overhauled gearbox ready and mounted by then. ^__^

So, here's a little gallery with the photos I've taken so far:
http://wizz.dyndns.dk/gearbox.htm

That's it for now folks, stay tuned.

Edited:
I've updated the gallery, more pictures, I've added some comments / arrows to some of them, points of interest that I plan to describe in the "how-to"-thingey I intend to do once it's all done.
Also, if anybody want to download all the pictures in one go, here's a zip file (14MB, 52 images): http://wizz.dyndns.dk/gearbox_dump.zip
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE

[Wizz]

Thats it! I'm done fixing the old (good) gearbox, removing the new (bad) one, and refitting the overhauled oldie.

I must say, this isn't nearly as hard as both me and my father imagined (feared!). The most troublesome part was taking apart the gearbox once it was dismounted. Replacing the synchronizing rings and re-assembling everything wasn't that bad.
Heh, I actually think re-assembly took less time than taking it apart. Feels that way anyway.
It was fun watching how the gearbox works, up close.
After completing assembly at home in the outhouse (?, shed?), we took off to the garage to swap gearboxes.
Now, while we were at it, we also had to remove one of the cylinder heads, to change the hydraulic valve lifters. This added a lot of time, so we spent about 12 hours total.

Swapping the gearbox really isn't that bad, at least when you have access to a lift.
Furthermore, since this is the second time we were doing it, we had an idea of how to do it - quite the advantage.

The results?
The gearbox shifts like a dream... It's so nice, it could be a brand new one for all that you'd know.
The gear-shift stick itself has also become a bit less soft... the one before was all jelly-like.

However.... After our little venture to change the valve lifters, something must have gone wrong. The engine won't idle! Not at all! It revs up fine if you give it some pedal, but when you're driving like.. 80 km/h, and you lift your foot, the engine revs drop, and it dies.
We spent some time looking for some sort of simple cause, to no avail.
Man.. Driving home (~40km) was a complete bitch.
We have since (today) discovered the error. Since my dear '33 is a IE model (1.5), the idle actuator is regulated by a valve that bypasses the usual gas-flow. This valve appears to be dead. I just hope I can find a new one, and fast! I need it by friday!

So! There you go! I'm thinking about doing a step-by-step (well, nearly ) guide-thingey - what do you think?
In the meantime, here's the updated gallery:
http://wizz.dyndns.dk/gearbox.htm
And all the images (72 of them, ~19 MB):
http://wizz.dyndns.dk/gearbox_dump.zip

Oh, and if you're thinking about changing your clutch etc., there might be some usefull pictures as well. ^_^

Happy driving!! \^_____^
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE

[ZeNiTh-PbArM]

hi!

congratulations for the perfect work you did! i'm trying myself to find a spare gearbox for 33 in order to overhaul it in time for next clutch replacement.
when i had overhauled the gearbox from my 75, i didn't recognize the car...those were the best $150 ever spent on the car. Ditto for a friend of mine's racing Alfetta 2000 GTV, which now shifts like new with no gearstick wobble or shimmy or "difficult to find" gear engagement.
i have two questions :
-did you need any special tools, especially for removing/fitting the pin on the inner selector linkage?
-would you mind if i re-used some of your pics for an online tutorial on my site, like the one i did on the 75?
regards,
zp

[Wizz]

Yeah, having a spare gearbox to work on, so you can still use the car while working, is really nice.
Yes indeed, spending money on the gearbox seems worth it.

On to the questions:
1: Did I need any special tools? Heck, the workshop manual said I needed lots of them. The most special thing I used was the wodden box for placing the gearbox upside-down in, that really helped alot. Other than that.. Nope, nothing special. Oh but you might want to go find a rather large wrench for the large nut locking the main axle.
2: Sure, use whatever images you want. If you host them yourself.
I'm considering doing an online-guide myself. Thats also the reason for the green arrows, numbers and stuff you'll find on some of the images.
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE

[gritsop]

Hi,

Also my congratulations for fixing your sweet 33! Actually It is not only worth the job you made but also the personal amusement of (re)creation; especially when you have plenty of space to work and time to devote.

About the idling-problem: Few days ago I replaced two fuel hoses (rubber ones with the fabric coating) under the intake manifold from and to the damper.
I had to remove the manifold in order to gain full access to the hoses;BUT when refitting the manifold it did not catch my attention that the gasket crimped. When it came to power the engine it could not idle at all and my world suddenly collapsed
The problem was then solved when I removed again the manifold with my father's help who observed the problem of more air to the engine

Check the manifold gaskets (if you removed them) for air leaks or not tighten clamps to various hoses etc.

Regards from Greece,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[Wizz]

You're right Gritsop - Having fixed your own gearbox is a very rewarding feeling.

Thanks alot for the info on the gaskets. I'm afraid its a bit too late, since we allready removed the manifold in order to get to that valve.
However, even though this valve doesn't work on mine, it seems that is not the cause for the car not idling. The valve works inverted, meaning it closes this extra air-hose when the engine is hot.. So, that wouldn't quite explain why the car won't idle while warm. (Boy, hope that makes any sense... )
So! Once I get my hands on a new valve, I'll have to try fitting it, and then make sure to keep an extra eye on the gaskets as i reassemble the manifold.
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE

[Wizz]

Yes! we got the idle thingey working.

It's hard to tell what caused it, since we tried quite a few things:
We opened the ECU and my dad (being an electronics-engineer) measured here and there and referenced with whatever he could find on the Bosch ML 4.1.
He also got the idle actuator-thingamajingey working.
And, we used some liquid gasket-stuff to re-fit the gaskets on the intake manifold. Thanks for the info on that Gritsop!

So, now that my sweet beloved Alfa's gearbox is remade, what should I do next...

Oh yeah, the former owner made a parking damage to the passenger side doors..
I need new rims.. (13" steel now )
I'm thinking about white dashboard backgrounds...
Perhaps remove the cat. and fit a nice exhaust with an even nicer sound?
So many possibilities with a car as lovely as the '33.
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE

[gritsop]

Hi,

A question on your photo's; I noticed that your engine has a white colored material layed upon. Is this caused by the snow and salt on your roads? I'm curious as I have not seen a machine with such color dust.

Also, why removing the cat? In my country removing a cat is against the law of antipollution regulations, moreover you should make some other alterations to the exchaust system so that the ECU knows that there is no cat... otherwise you will then have excessive fuel consumption!

Anyway have nice and good kms with your Alfa

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[Wizz]

Hi,
Gritsop, what kind of white dust are you talking about? What pictures do you see this on?

Anyway, ragarding the cat. Removing it is also illegal in Denmark, but I figured if I just put it back on for Mot tests.
I can see your point with the Lambda probe... hadn't thought about that. I've just been under the impression that the cat. removes a couple of BHP's?, also since they are quite costly to replace, i figured I could make it last longer by not using it.
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE

[gritsop]

Hi,

I'm talking about the picture showing the intake manifold which is very white colored compared to mine which has the color of the aluminium.
Perhaps if you try to remove it by using glass cleaner like W5 or Azax it would be a nice practice to maintain it clear. As soon as the weather comes shinny again I'll take some pictures and post them in order to see mine.

Personally, I am fan of the keep-the-engine-clear theory; I'm using glass cleaner in order to take away mud stains and various greasely deposits here and there. In addition I use water in pressure & concentrated soap for the dishes in order to take away all the dirt from the inside of the wheel arches.

It may sound funny to you but it trully does miracles - the inside if the wheel arches comes to the original color. Also you avoid the probability for rust as no moisture, mud or salt accumulates in the interior.

The catalyst takes away horse power which does not exceed 2-4hps.In addition these hps are deducted from the upper horsepower range of your engine and not from the below.
Anyway gaining few hps in city driving style will not have any difference, to my opinion.

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[Wizz]

Hi,
Yes I can see that the intake manifold is looking somewhat.. used, weatherbitten(?).
I enjoyed reading your thoughts on how to maintain the car, and the reasons for it. Gives one something to think about. In fact I'm toying with the idea of removing the engine and gearbox when I have some vacation, and having it thoroughly cleaned, and then painted.

I agree with your point on not needing all the BHP's when doing city driving, however theres still the cost for replacement of the cat. to consider. Anyway, I'll give it some more thought when the time comes to do some replacement on the exhaust. (Just replaced the rearmost bit..)

Thanks for the feedback!
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE

[John Hansen]

Hi Wizz,
Do you have to remove the starter motor in order to be able to separate the gear box unit from the engine? I went to work on trying to remove the gear box (to try to fix 2nd gear synchro) this weeked, but after having loosened off the four apparent bolts (connecting bell housing to the engine), I couldn't budge the box. Have put the job off for a couple of weeks, but would appreciate any comments as I want to try to replace the synchro on seconde gear. Driving without second is not too bad, but it would be handy to have at times.
THANKS.

PS How was the wedding celebrations??
_________________
John H
'87 Alfa 33 QV

[Wizz]

Hi there John.
Nope, I don't think we removed the starter motor. We removed the ignition-house, the one with the rotating switch inside that ignites the spark plugs.. Dunno what it's called. We didn't even remove the intake manifold, we just undid the bolts and left it in place.
What I believe is your problem here, is the centermost engine support. As you can see in this image from the Alfa 33 workshop manual:

.. Pay attention to Detail A. This one is a bugger to remove.
You can see the support up-close here:

And where it sits here:


I just realised all my previous images, as well as the gallery must not be working. This is because my brother has borrowed my laptop for his finals this week... Sorry, will have it back in a couple of days. Untill then I hope these will suffice.

About the royal wedding; Yeah, I suppose it went fine. Some of my friends spent most of the day watching it live.. I hardly watched it at all, can't say I'm a royalist sorry. Heck, one guy I heard off took the entire week off work, so he could make sure he'd watch all the preparations!.. I mean, come on! All they did was talk about what they were going to eat, their time-schedule and God knows what.
Whoops, looks like I rambled off a bit there.

Good luck with fixing that ever-bothersome 2nd gear!
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE