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[Ben_nz]

I've spent the past two days disassembling the ventilation system in my '88 33QV. It didn't look that hard in the old workshop manual, and I'd been spoilt by the ventilation system in my previous car ('88 Mitsubishi Cordia) - four speeds, whisper quiet when set to upper vents, pumped out lots of air and I could take the motor out in 10 minutes easy.
But I'm sure Alfa Romeo spent less time designing their system than I spent pulling it apart and putting it back together.

Initial problems were that the motor was noisy and not much air came out.

Things I found wrong were that the motor needed greasing (and probably replacing but too bad), and the various little doors weren't closing properly to direct the air. The foam stuck onto the little doors to make them seal well and not rattle was crumbling away.

The biggest problem I had while trying to get the ventilation unit out was that it seemed physically impossible to do without taking the whole dashboard out or breaking something. This is because in order for the upper two of the ventilation unit's four bolts to clear their holes so the unit could be removed, the unit needed to move upward. It couldn't do that because it was sealing against the thing that channelled air up to the dashboard and winscreen vents. And in order to remove that, you'd have to remove the dashboard and drill the rivets(!) holding the air channel to the car body.
Or you could use Alfa Romeo Special Tool #1 (the Minor Miracle, out of production for years now unfortunately), or you could break something.
I decided to break the upper two bolts stopping me removing the ventilation unit.
After trying a hacksaw and a hammer, I found I could grab the bolt ends with vise grips and twist them, busting the plastic on the ventilation unit which locks the bolt heads in place. I was then able to unscrew them slowly with the vise grips until they could be removed. It turns out there was a second hidden nut which secured the bolts to the ventilation unit itself, which is why you can't just push the bolts out of the way once you've undone the nut inside the car.

There wasn't enough adjustment on the lever which closes the foot vent on the ventilation module, meaning air always escaped there. I had to mount the ventilation controls a bit differently to make them closer to the ventilation module to correct for this.

Things I learnt:
The ventilation controls are supposed to be illuminated, but the light had come loose
So are the electric window switches, but the bulbs were blown
The resistor for the low fan speed is actually a spring of wire that's part of the motor itself
The motor is an open design with a frame to support its inner components, and is placed in the airflow to make sure dirt and moisture can enter and stuff everything up. It is made in Spain (probably by Magneti Marelli's Spanish cousin, Emilio El Ectrode )
The motor cannot be disassembled.
And most importantly, 'QV' does not stand for Quiet Ventilation or Quality Vehicle. If you have a problem with your ventilation system, it better be really bad and really important to you before you consider spending hours wrestling with your car and pulling it to bits. Alfa don't make these things easy.


-Ben

[gritsop]

Hi,

Ben, I totally agree with you - the ventilation system of the 33 is a mess. In my car (s3, no A/C) one day I found in the passengers feet area two pieces of plastic which i did not know where they come from.
I realised then that air could escape from the vent holes focusing the windscreen even if I had the knob focusing the feet of the face...
The other day I tried to dismantle the vent system in order to find the broken parts and glue them.
Conlusion: a total mess, a total pain in the *$#
I have left everything as is and only when it is needed and there should be need to dismantle it, i will do so.

Bye from Greece,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[Eddie W]

Hi Ben
While you had it apart I hope you gave the rad a thorough cleaning as they are usually blocked to greater or lesser degree which seriously affects the heater efficiency. I saw a post a while back where one of our Aussie cousins had replaced his rad with one from a VK holden which doesn't block the same.
Regards Eddie
_________________
A LITTLE FURTHER A LITTLE FASTER

[Ben_nz]

Eddie,
You wouldn't believe (well, actually you might) the amount of rusty stuff I have washed out of the car's cooling system. When changing the coolant before I tipped many watering cans of clean water in through the reservoir until it stopped coming out the drain plugs looking like chocolate. Then I removed the reservoir, filled it, shook it and drained it a good 30 times or so until it was clean. I did the same with the heater core when I had it out yesterday. Put one end on the tap and turned the tap on - presto, chocolate fountain from the other end.

The previous owner said he'd had the radiator core replaced because it had clogged and stopped any heat output from the ventilation system.

I'm a bit wary of using a radiator flush additive because of the amount of rusty debris it might loosen. I did that with an 80s Ford Laser once and it killed the water pump, same thing happened to a mate of mine.

I got everything back together today and turned the car on, and all this smoke came out of the ventilation
It must have been the new foam I put around the edges of the heater core to replace the old stuff - I guess it couldn't take the heat.
So.... don't do that.
But the fan's quieter now, so I can rest until it's time to attack the next problem..

[Maze123]

Hi Ben!

Did your little operation increase the amount of air coming out?? The reason I'm asking is, that I've thought of cleaning my system too as you have done, but your story scares me a little bit..! But I like your picture...

Regards Mads
_________________
Alfa 33 1.7 16v '88 QV
http://www.bilgalleri.dk/html/gal_visbil.asp?ID=2498

[Ben_nz]

It made a small apparent increase in airflow, mostly due to adjustments to the flaps which direct the air.
I tested the motor when it was out of the system, and it blows okay. The trouble seems to be that so much air escapes through gaps or exits through the outlets which should be shut off, and that makes the system feel feeble. I suppose you're still getting the same total airflow, it's just that it doesn't all go where you tell it.

You should be able to adjust the position of two flaps at the side of the ventilation unit under the bonnet, without disassembling anything. It's also easy to make sure that the foot vent is closing fully just by looking under the dash. The top flap behind the dashboard which directs air between the windscreen and face vents didn't look that hard to adjust once you have the centre console removed.

Although I didn't manage a miraculous transformation in terms of airflow, the ventilation is now quiet enough not to drown out whatever CD I happen to be listening to. Greasing the motor has stopped the rubbing/scraping noises it used to make. I get maximum mileage out of the effort I put in removing the ventilation system by now using it as much as possible.

In New Zealand at the moment it's pretty hot, so a feeble ventilation system in a black car with no air conditioning is really pretty useless. I still have to drive with the windows down (low speed) or sunroof open (motorway). At high speed, if you have an exit point for air (the sunroof), air flows in the two circular vents nearest the doors quite well. Also if you put the ventilation system on low, it has a good airflow that's mostly due to air being forced through because of the speed you're going. And that seems to be as good as you can get.. The main benefit should be in winter when I need to demist the windscreen or keep my hands from freezing.

-Ben

[Ben_nz]

[johnboy]

[Ben_nz]

[Graham]

I have just finished completely redoing my air con in my series 2, we replaced the bearings in the fan and also replaced the condensors and rebuilt the compressor, My air con now comes down to 7 degrees celcius and is absolutely fantastic. I also rebuilt all the wiring harness for the above and this made a difference ,
_________________
5 Alfa 33's, 2 Suds God there is no help for me

Also own 2 Complete 16V Engines(Spare) And Have a Sud Rally Car in Production