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spiros54 · Alfa Arna Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 4 Location: Sweden

Hi guys
I have one boxermotor but I dont know what kind it is!
It is twin Webers 36 and the S/N is AR301980001846
No bore diameter stamped on the block!
Any idea?
Thanks
Spiros

Bellamachinna · Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:54 pm Post subject:

Hi...
Are you sure the #is AR30198 ????
The closest match was AR 30168 and was an 1.3 engine, from an series 2.
That means, mechanical tappets, and 36 carburettors...
By memory, all series 2 engines were started by AR 305 (1.5 & 1.7).
The series 3, had serial number started, by AR 307.
AR, stands for Alfa Romeo, the first 3 digits, the car in which it was fitted, and the last two the engine capacity.
The rest is production number...
For example:
AR 307 46 000xxxxxx
AR-Alfa Romeo
307-Series 3 (Nuova)
46 - 1.7 16v without cat.- If it, had cat., the number was 47.
000xxxxxx-Production number.
Hope this helps
J.Oliveira
_________________
All'interno della mia macchina, vi sedete, tenete sopra e CHIUDETE IN SU...

spiros54 · Alfa Arna Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 4 Location: Sweden

Hi Oliveira
I have one foto of the S/N!
Maybe it is help a litle!
The man who sold this engine to me, few years ago, believed that came from a Sprint!But, who knows?
http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/zoom/alfasud/35629/427922
Spiros

Bellamachinna · Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject:

Hi...

I´m not an expert, on Sprints, but i believe, that the numbering logic, is the same.
However, I can see clearly that you were right, saying that is AR30198.
I will look around, through my files, and if that engine was fitted to an 33, i´ll discover.
If it was only, stuck into Sprints, i will not be able to help...
Maybe some Sprint owner, and user of this forúm...

Best regards
J.Oliveira
_________________
All'interno della mia macchina, vi sedete, tenete sopra e CHIUDETE IN SU...

spiros54 · Alfa Arna Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 4 Location: Sweden

Thanks Oliveira
Today I find some more numbers on the cast!
Near cyl N 1 the number 15C4 or maybe 1504 in one rectangular/oval!
Near the cyl N 3 the number 108 539
Near the cyl N 4 the α S!
Spiros

Vecchio Alfisti · Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:33 am Post subject:

Hi Spiros

I was about to ask the same question. I have a similar engine, twin carb which I pulled out of a 1984 Sprint last week. Serial number 30198 0001874

I have only had time to pull the heads off and found the pistons are 84.6 mm dia and so it presumably is a 1500, though I have not been able to measure the stroke yet. 84.6 is the third oversize after 84.2 and 84.4. I would like to know what cams are in this because I can find no reference to it anywhere.

All in formation hungrily received and digested.

By the way I am in Oz and I notice that Sweden Switzerland and Australia share many mandatory requirement. Maybe there is a pointer there -eg higher/lower compression ratio than standard etc. The pistons seem to be the standard AE but there is certainly some room at TDC which would suggest a lower CR.
_________________
Alfa 33 1.7 QF I think maybe now I m not so sure

Guest · Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:30 am Post subject:

Hi John
Yes, it was the same emissions requirements in Sweden/Swiss and Au!
I thing the power is little less then the other countries!
I have to pull out the heads and measure the stroke this weekend!
Spiros

BILL · Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:55 pm Post subject:

Vecchio Alfisti · Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 5:28 am Post subject: Help to identify motor by S/N

Hi Spiros
I measured the stroke of my motor today and it was 67mm Maybe 67.2 but who is watching. The space above the piston including the gasket is 4mm measured with a steel rule to 0.5 mm. I estimate allowing for the depression in the piston crown that the CR is near to 10.5. Total cap 1510 cc Remember it is oversize.

Another thing. This engine came with a nonfunctional distributor with no vacuum advance (Marrelli) and the cap is marked 1 3 4 2suggesting a firing order, and all suds and 33's I thought were 1 3 2 4. Does yours have its dizzy? and is it marked? and does it have a vacuum advance?
John
_________________
Alfa 33 1.7 QF I think maybe now I m not so sure

alexj · Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 1:28 pm Post subject:

Maybe I can shed some light.... back in the early 1980's most of the EU and most of the world got the 1490cc 95bhp twin carb engine in the Alfasud Ti and Sprint Veloce. This engine had the split lobe camshaft (adjust with allen key) design of the single carb models, but these twin carb engines didn't meet emissions standards for Australia... and I assume Sweden and Switzerland.

This is engine type 301.28 - see link for more complete list:
http://www.alfisti.co.uk/BoxerA-Z.htm

So while most countries had the 95bhp twin carb suds, Australia (and the others listed?) had to make do with the lower powered single carb models.

Then in about 1983, most countries got the 1490cc 105bhp Green Cloverleaf models with a number of changes. e.g. different cam profiles, valve clearnace adjusted by shims.

This is engine type 301.46.

The Green Cloverleaf model was also sold in Australia (and I assume Sweden and Switzerland) with a very similar 1490cc twin carb engine, but modified to meet the more demanding emmisions standards. The reviews at the time rated this engine at 95bhp DIN.

My guess ( and I can't say for sure) would be that this engine you have - the 301.98 is one of these engines. Mechanically very similar to the 301.46 but tuned for low emissions with performance closer closer to the 301.28. I can't be sure what those changes were... and of course most people who have seen one version, didn't get the other version in their country so very few people would know the exact differences. Can someone from Australia confirm that these engines had the shim adjusted valve clearance?

In this case it has probably had a rebore at some point in it's life and is now about 1510cc instead of 1490cc.

Regards
Lex

Vecchio Alfisti · Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 6:55 am Post subject:

Hi Alexi

Thank you for your input. The cams on my engine are the twin lobe type with the adjustment done by Allen key. Remember that this engine came from a 1984 Sprint, is probably of that age, designed to run on leaded petrol. The only concession to anti-pollution that I could see was that there was air injection into the exhaust.

In Australia we did get a 105HP engine "reputedly". It was designated 30182 ran on leaded fuel and has shim adjustment for the tappets. This engine appears to be well known and appears in a number of references.

I am still interested to read anything that anyone can add about the engine type that Spiros and I have.

John

Confused

_________________
Alfa 33 1.7 QF I think maybe now I m not so sure

Vecchio Alfisti · Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 7:02 am Post subject:

HI Alexj
Sorry for the typo on your name. Embarassed

John
_________________
Alfa 33 1.7 QF I think maybe now I m not so sure

alfafan · Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 5:17 pm Post subject:

That engine came out of a 1984 Sprint, and it is a 1.5.
I think its a 95cv version as the 105cv doen´t have twin lobe cams....

Regards

Carlos Oliveira

mt · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 11:07 am Post subject:

spiros54 · Alfa Arna Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 4 Location: Sweden

Today I was working with the engine!
It is 1,5L and the same family as Vecchio Alfisti describes!
Is it possible to use heads of one 105 HP engine?
Spiros

alfafan · Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:55 am Post subject:

No problem...
It´s direct bolt on..

Regards

Carlos Oliveira

Norbee · Guest

Hi

Does anybody know about the 30182 series engines? Where did they produced, Australia, Switzerland?

Vecchio Alfisti · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:39 am Post subject:

The 301.82 type engine was certainly not produced in Australia, although they may have been produced FOR Australia and possibly Switzerland. They were in the 1985/86 Alfa 33 Green Cloverleaf 1.5 litre and also in the Alfa Sprint of the same era.

Any further detail anyone can post about these engines would be most welcome.
John
_________________
Alfa 33 1.7 QF I think maybe now I m not so sure

norbee · Alfa Arna Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Hungary

RFlower · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject:

gritsop · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:34 pm Post subject:

Hi,

You can try http://www.carsfromitaly.com

Loads of info and pics from Alfas and not only!

By, the way, welcome to the forum Very Happy

Regards
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

norbee · Alfa Arna Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Hungary

spooty22 · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:39 am Post subject:

Hi,

This is the info as I know it:

Australian delivered 1.5 twin carb boxer motors:

301.98: 95hp, leaded, as used from 1/8/83 - 1/12/84 in the Alfasud QV and 1/3/84 - 1/5/85 in the Alfasud Sprint TC. This is the Australian, emissionised version of Europes 301.28. Thus twin lobe cams. Replaced by 305.20

305.20: 95hp, leaded, as used in Alfa 33 and Alfa Sprint (33 floorpan
model) from 1985 to 1986. Single lobe cams with shims. Replaced by 305.26

305.26: 94hp version of 305.20, modified for unleaded petrol with cat. As used in alfa 33 from 1986 until replaced by 1.7ie. Also used in Sprint from 1986 until end of Sprint production.

301.82: Australian, emissionised version of Europes 301.46. Thus 105hp, single lobe cams and shim type adjustment. As used in Alfa 33 Ti, until replaced by the 1.7 twin carb 305.50. Supposedly also used in some Alfasud Sprint TCs from 1/3/84 -1/5/85.

All Australian delivered twin carb boxer motors had the following emission equipment added:

- air injection (no pump)
- throttle kick down solenoid

and from 1986:

-catalytic convertor

As for the distributor with no vacuum advance, I wondered the same thing about my 305.20 until I discovered someone had erroneously fitted a later model injection distributor! All original twin carb motors had vacuum advance regulators. (although the ignition timing did vary between models)
_________________
1980 Sud ti

Vecchio Alfisti · Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:34 am Post subject:

Excellent info. I am really grateful for all that. Thanks

Just one point on the no vacuum advance distributor. I have two cars with the original books and the 301.82 engine, and neither has vacuum advance. I do not think that this is a coincidence. Every car that i have seen with the Bosch distributor has the vacuum advance, but on the two cars i have with Marelli distributor they are without, there is not even a tapping point on the manifold or carburretor.

John Very Happy

_________________
Alfa 33 1.7 QF I think maybe now I m not so sure

Guest · Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject:

http://www.genei.cz/katalog/panther_spojky/htm/007.html

definately 1.5 sprint