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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: 1400 16V rallycar |
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Until they start a rallying section (which is unlikely) or rename this section "Motorsport" then this is the most appropriate place for this thread. For those of you who have helped me on this forum heres a quick update on where I am at.
The idea is based around the up to 1400cc class in rallying which in forest rallying means that most of the time you run right at the front . Currently I have an 8V 1600 engine which when you take into consideration that I am not particularly fast, I dont have £250,000 to spend on a car but am fairly dangerous means I run at the back . The consequences of this are rough roads, unable to commit to best line through a corner and knocking seven bells of s**t out of the car is not a recipe for success .
Whats been done is I have taken a a pair of 16V heads and mated them with a 1350block overbored to give me 1399cc. After a lot of buggering about finding whether it will all go together, it will. Dave at Mech-motorsport in Cheltenham has done the final engine build for me just to remove any errors I might have made and he has now finished .
Hopefully collection is this weekend and then its strip car down and convert fuel sysytem from carbs to fuel injection. Target is to have car running by early in new year.
Will keep you all posted on whether there is a nice crackle or a big bang when the ignition button gets pressed.
Thanks again to all those who have offered help, advice and just as importantly parts
Regards rsfruitbat |
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Alan Alfasud
Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 48 Location: Slovenia - Ljubljana
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Blocks being different was initially a concern. The only differences I found were to remove the 8V cam belt tensioner stud, drill and tap hole for thermostat housing.
What is different is the head gaskets. On the 8V ones I used from the 1490 engine only the lower waterway holes from head to block were opened up but on the 16V gaskets there are additional holes in the upper passageways to allow waterflow through here aswell. I modified the 8V gaskets to suit.
Special pistons were made to get the bore that I wanted and to accomodate the new stroke and compression chamber in the head. Imagine an 8V piston but with the 16V piston cut-outs.
Unfortunately I havent got pictures and dont know how to put them on if I did.
Hopefully within the next 6 weeks it will be running so I will update people on how it is performing. Alternatively I may be be after councelling and support.
PS thanks ADMIN for the section title change . Perhaps this might get a few more contributors to this section?
Regards rsfruitbat |
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hugh jinjin Alfasud
Joined: 04 Sep 2004 Posts: 68 Location: Glasgow
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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good luck Ade, have you been down to ahm for the gearset yet ? and if so what's it like. |
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Gearset has been received but I dont think I am up to installing it. I hope it does provide the improvements I am after.
In rallying that first / second gear hole was always a flaming nightmare to work around. You need the tight twisty stuff to exploit the handling and then it keeps bogging down in the gearchange. I used to end up deliberately slipping clutch to keep engine on boil. This is one of the reasons I got your uprated clutch to give me a bigger safety factor. All in all it looks fine but too be honest I know b****r all about gearboxes.
Will keep you updated
rsfruitbat |
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Eddie_W Alfasud
Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 74 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Not familiar with 16v's but don't they have exrta oil drains from the camboxes as compared to an 8v?
Regards Eddie _________________ The pop star formerly known as Eddie W |
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Eddie W
Ended up getting a 16V block an 8V 1.7 block and a 1350 block sat on my bench at the same time. Could find no oil / water gallery differences. Headgaskets are different for 16V but mainly centered around the water galleries. As cc increases then the water galleries in the head gasket get opened up.
Extra oil drains in 16V heads are at bottom so have just used 16V sump. Engine has been put together professionally now and he couldnt find anything obvious either. Just waiting to fit and find out how it goes.
rsfruitbat |
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irs buggy Alfa Arna
Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 3 Location: durham
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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: dizzy questions???????????? |
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can you look at my thread and give advice please???? |
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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It lives
132bhp at the flywheel at 6900rpm
98bhp at the wheels
100lbs / ft torque between 5500 and 7500rpm
Dave at Mech-repairs thinks cams are a bit wild for a 1400 suggested that 270 deg cams and some head work will produce same or more power at lower rpm and increase torque throughout. Maybe this winter ?
Pleased with result
rsfruitbat |
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Admin Site Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 1223 Location: Stafford, UK
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Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
Any chance of scans of the dyno graphs with details of the gearing / wheel sizes / tyre sizes?
All the best
Keith _________________ I owe, I owe, its off to work we go.
Bimota Forum
Stafford Christmas Lights
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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was planning to sort out that info.Can you advise on how I can post the scanned graph? I might try and copy info onto an excel spreadsheet anyway if that is easier?
Regards rsfruitbat |
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Admin Site Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 1223 Location: Stafford, UK
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Hi
Excel info would be fine. If you scan the graph then you need to upload it somewhere and link to it. If you have no online storage then email it to me and I will upload it.
All the best
Keith _________________ I owe, I owe, its off to work we go.
Bimota Forum
Stafford Christmas Lights
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Pogress continues slow and steady.
MOTed today and six months tax slapped on the screen.
Missus has just took it out for a play so hopefully she will be able to tell me what I all my hard work goes like .
Rsfruitbat _________________ Alfa 33 rallycar series 1
1399cc 16V
red / white / blue |
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Admin Site Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 1223 Location: Stafford, UK
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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As Mr Meldrew would say " I dont believe it!!!!"
There I was letting the car warm up gently while I put the bin up, put out the recycling, moved the missus car out the way so I can take the car for a run. Everything going smoothly. Climbed in the car and started reversing it out of the garage and it stalled. Only problem is the damn thing wont now restart .
Fuel pressure is fine, 50psi.
plugs are wet so its getting the go juice in.
got a spark but the guy said it was orange and not white?
When you crank it is fairly dead unless you put accelerator down then you can hear it spitting back through carbs .
So getting a new crank sensor to try.
If that dont work it'll be the coil pack next.
In the mean time I am going to try and get hold of the MBE software and make a comms link to the brain so hopefully it can tell me whats wrong.
At worst I suppose it is back on the dolly and a trip to Cheltenham again.
This car is definately female. It does what it wants, when it wants .
Any advice appreciated
rsfruitbat _________________ Alfa 33 rallycar series 1
1399cc 16V
red / white / blue |
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baldy Alfasud
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 67
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: coil pack |
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Sorry to hear that bad luck!! what coil and leads did you use in the end? I also need to get one of my head gaskets done as its leaking water. |
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:12 am Post subject: |
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At the moment it is running on the stuff the ECU came with so its a coil pack off a fiat Brava 1.2, and a crank sensor off a ford. Changed that last night and didnt fix problem .
Managed to get a copy of the MBE software off the net and if I can get a comms lead made up I am going to have a look and see if I can see what signal its missing.
Hopefully this will be cheaper as otherwise I can see the haystack becoming quite expensive in order to find this needle.
I suspect coil pack will be the next thing I replace.
rsfruitbat _________________ Alfa 33 rallycar series 1
1399cc 16V
red / white / blue |
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Replaced crank sensor and no joy
Coil pack I suppose is next. More money
I have managed to get the MBE ECU software and taken a look at the map but there is nothing obvious. Throttle pot numbers change when you touch the accelerator, RPM no changes when turning over, battery volts look fine. To be honest I havent got a b*****y clue what I am looking at or for .
I sense a trip back to the rolling road coming on.
Although down the shops for a box of matches is tempting at the moment .
Rsfruitbat _________________ Alfa 33 rallycar series 1
1399cc 16V
red / white / blue |
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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It has turned out that the trigger wheel ahs been the problem. Had dowelled it on with a role pin but it must ahve sheared when the front nut was tightened.
The trigger wheel now has three solid dowels holding it on.
Unfortunately as it must have moved initially a small amount the ignition timing is all out so it is back to mech-repairs to set that back up.
Better it happened now than on a stage I suppose.
rsfruitbat _________________ Alfa 33 rallycar series 1
1399cc 16V
red / white / blue |
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Admin Site Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 1223 Location: Stafford, UK
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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The trigger wheel is a machined front pulley. The front lip is given 36 slots and then one "tooth" is removed. This gap is then used to help the brain identify where TDC is. What I did was to have the front camshaft belt pulley drilled to take a roll pin. I thought it would be sufficient but as the front nut is tightened to 100lbs/ft it appears it wasnt. I have now had three solid 2mm dowels put in the front pulley and it appears to have held this time.
AHM do a special spacer that replaces the one that fits in between the two cambelt drive cogs but it isnt cheap.
rsfruitbat _________________ Alfa 33 rallycar series 1
1399cc 16V
red / white / blue |
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RedAlfa Alfa Arna
Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 4
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
This engine use solid tappets our hydraulic?? |
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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The engine uses solid tappet conversion from AHM.
Wasnt sure about safe limit for hydraulic. It was suggested that they might go to 7500rpm. Wanted capability to go to 8500.
rsfruitbat _________________ Alfa 33 rallycar series 1
1399cc 16V
red / white / blue |
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rsfruitbat Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Kidderminster
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Heres a question maybe one of the racers can answer.
Using a series 1 or 2 33 shell there isnt a lot of space between engine and radiator, especially not if you want to run with the belt covers on.
Has anyone tried fitting Pacet / kenlowe type fans?
I was thinking about seeing if I could fit a pair in front of the rad, behind grill and bumper blowing through rad and mount oil cooler where fan used to be.
Anyone got any thoughts?
rsfruitbat _________________ Alfa 33 rallycar series 1
1399cc 16V
red / white / blue |
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Oggie Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 811 Location: Whitehill
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure i spoke to adie h about fitting kenlowe fans from a 205 i believe , is your oil cooler fitted to the front nearside of the rad like mine?. _________________ PHAT 33 |
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