Alfa Pages

ZeNiTh-PbArM · Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject:

Hi, 33 heads can be tightened with a dynamometric wrench and the proper bit (16V) or socket (8V), preferably with engine out of the car.
When engine is in the car, due to lack of space a special wrench is often being used, This special wrench adds more leverage to the wrench and wrench torque must be reduced to keep the same torque at the bolt.
regards,
zp

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

I will be using a normal torque wrench and normal m12 spline bit fitted directly to the torque wrench, engine is in situ and i have loads of room. Not sure why people make a fuss about there being no room Laughing

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x2 33 16v
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

Anyone? Just found more different ratings in another manual.
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

Any ideas on these manuals having differing torque settings?

Does anyone in the U.K have any spare pulley supports for the spring loaded belt tensioners? I was told yesterday that mine are on back order with no e.t.a.
I think there are 2 types, i will post some pics later.
Thanks in advance.
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

Anyone got any ideas on the torque settings for the head bolts, the head gasket has arrived so i could put everything back together and wait for the tensioner brackets.
Thanks in advance.
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

Admin · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:50 am Post subject:

Hi

Without digging manuals out, there will be differences depending on the adaptor used for the head bolts. Also it would not surprise me if the 16V had a different torque setting anyway.

Can't find my Dutch manual at the moment (small handy thing).

The fiche manual says 93~97Nm (Fiche 5 - MF330004GB0050121.GIF).

The 8V was 81~87Nw without an extension.

All the best

Keith
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

thanks keith but

Admin · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:59 am Post subject:

Hi

The lower figures are for if you are using the Alfa tool to do them in the car, which acts as an extension on the torque wrench and will result in a different reading for the same actual torque on the bolt.

Same applies to the 8V engine.

Seems you should be using 93~97Nm as you are just using a torque wrench directly.

All the best

Keith
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

sweet, thanks, that seems quite a high setting compaired to the 8v Laughing

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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

Admin · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject:

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

soooper, whats with that pic in my signature??
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

Admin · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:39 am Post subject:

Hi

Not a clue, but it has disappeared now.

All the best

Keith
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

I checked my profile and it had been added, did you do this? as i didnt, just wondering if someone hacked the site?
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x2 33 16v
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Admin · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:26 am Post subject:

Hi

Nope, I didn't add it.

All the best

Keith
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

ok thanks, weird.
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x2 33 16v
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

O.K i found out what happend, it was the guys at FORMULA ONE in Brighton, I left myself logged on, you all have my permission to go down and kick there ass!!!! or call them and verbally abuse them 01273 552816 Laughing

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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

Going to try fitting head on Saturday, in the manual it says take a few attempts at tightening. Does this mean tighten all up in the correct order to a lower setting than desired and then increase on each attempt until desired setting is reached. Surely it doesn’t mean tighten and then un tighten and re tighten until desired setting, as this would crush the metal gasket and then releasing it again???
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x2 33 16v
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Admin · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject:

Hi

Yes, do it in stages, each time in the right order.

Some designs of engine do require the head bolts to be retightened after the engine has run for a bit.

All the best

Keith
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

thanks again keith Smile

stupid garrage didnty send my supports on friday, they only sent them on saturday, so wont be able to do the job until next weekend!!!
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

I have an oil leek on the good head side, but I have just kept an eye on oil levels and I think it is coming from one of the cam oil seals.
I was thinking of changing the cam oil seals on the good side, without removing the head and with the engine in situ, whilst I have the now repaired head off.
With the cams in the tension position, as in the two triangles together, will the cams move if the cam pulleys are removed?
I ask this as I incorrectly removed the belts whilst the engine was in TDC, instead of the two triangles together and the cam has moved so that the valves are resting on a piston, I am not moving the engine until the belt is back on.
On the head that’s now repaired, there is a slight movement when in the two triangle position but I don’t know about the driver’s side.

After reading Bobbbers post about the camshaft cover bolts, I’m worried about touching it, should I leave it?
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x2 33 16v
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

update.
I was told by my local alfa garage mechanic that there are two types of pulley bearing supports, when I went to order new supports from “no name” garage, I told the guy that there are two types, but he said there only sided. He couldn’t get any so I got them from “no name 2” garage second hand.

I pressed off the old pulleys bearings off the new second hand supports and pressed on my new pulley bearings. I went to fit them and the supports didn’t fit!

Upon further inspection there are indeed two types, my type are as follows.
Fixed bolt hole is 23.05 – 23.10mm high and 8.38mm wide.
Other types are 17.10 – 17.12mm high and 8.0mm wide

I phoned up “no name 2” garage and explained the situation, as in they don’t fit due to the differences between the supports, saying that to press off the bearings I can’t see a way of not damaging them, as the pin head is 16.72mm and the centre of the bearing is 17.70mm. He said press them off and see if they get damaged.

I pressed off my new bearings and yes they got damaged, the bearing cover, which is covered in rubber, had indents from the bearing cage from being pushed up against it.

I called up “no name 2” garage and told him they had been damaged and he asked for the supports and new damaged bearings to be sent back to him.

Thinking about it he should have just taken back the supports with new bearings on them and given me money for the bearings DOH! I am hoping that he will pay for my damaged bearings as he told me to press them off.

I have asked my local alfa garage mechanic if he has any supports spare that are correct for me, I will find out tomorrow.

Just thought id post my experiences so if anyone else doing this can learn from what I have experienced. I was told there was two types and then told, no there only sided!!

Pressing the bearings out is easy but will get damaged. You will need a long wheel bolt to fit in the 12mm hole in the support, a deep 17mm socket and a vice.

To press them on you need to press the pin into the bearing first, using the wheel bolt, or something as wide as the pin head, 16.7mm and a deep socket to accommodate the 12mm shaft of the pin and 17.7mm wide to push up against the centre of the bearing, so the bearing doesn’t get damaged. Then press it into the support.

I’m getting really disheartened about all this and need some encouragement guys.
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

How do you tighten the cam pulleys on to the camshaft? Are you supposed to use the tool Keith Mentioned?

Or the part on the cam shaft that is slotted? I don’t have the tool and was thinking of using the slotted part on the camshaft but the slot doesn’t seem that good, especially to keep the shaft still whilst tightening with a torque wrench.
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

Well I give up, I can’t tighten the pulleys onto the camshafts as the slot on the camshaft isn’t enough to hold the camshaft in place whilst trying to tighten up with a torque wrench.
Also the cam bearing caps have a setting of 25Nm, the torque wrench starts at 50Nm. I was told to tighten with a ratchet until it pinches and then turn 1/4 turn, I only tightened to 45 degrees and thought that was tight enough, let alone 90 degrees.
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x2 33 16v
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lee16v · Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject:

Al,
Probably not the recommended way of doing it but I wedged a bit of hex steel in between the pulleys to stop them rotating whilst I torqued it up. Did the job and there was no damage to the teeth.

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

Thanks Lee, I will give that a go, do you remember what size you used?

I now see why people say there isn’t enough room, it might just be my torque wrench though.
I put the head on and only nipped up all the bolts, when it came to torque them up I couldn’t get the torque wrench in the space, even when engine was moved/tilted over

I am using a ½” bit torque wrench with ½” m12 spline. It measures 85mm, just over 3 ¼” tall.
Will a 3/8” torque wrench be different, if there is such a thing?
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203