Alfa Pages

[BigAl]

I have been told that the ecu in our lovely 16v adjust the timing, this is correct up to a certain point, as it is done in software and cannot change the position of the rotor arm in relation to the distributor cap. Mechanically this has to be done manually by correctly positioning the distributor.
Where should the rotor arm point to, in relation to the mark for no1, when engine is at TDC. Should it be bang in the middle of the rotor arm or should the rotor arm be slightly before the mark? I ask this because if the rotor arm is before the mark then when the timing is advanced it will have the rest of the rotor arm to spark from, where as if the rotor arm is put after the mark when the timing advances then the rotor arm would have past its point.
I checked mine and you can see the pictures for yourself.


Before timing, see the shiny mark for cylinder 1 to the right of the rotor arm


After timing, see the shiny mark for cylinder 1 in the middle of the rotor arm

_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[DaviiD]

Spark always occurs before piston reaches TDC. That means that rotor should have passed timing mark when piston reach TDC.

You shouldn't set it to center, like you did...

[BigAl]

thanks, where would you suggest i put it??
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[lee16v]

Hi Al,
I had this thought when doing mine. I actually had the engine running with the distributor loose and with (very well insulated!) pliers twisted the distributor around. I couldn't hear any change in the running of the engine at all and that was twisting the dizzy around quite a long way in both directions of TDC. Someone should be able to explain why this is but I don't think it makes a hell of a lot of difference mate.

[BigAl]

hey lee, I dont think there will be an audible change as the ECU will do the most of it but there must be a "correct position" other wise the spark will have to ark over a greater distance, making it weaker and possibly a poorer burn, leading to high emissions??
Where is everyone???
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[lee16v]

Yeah, I see where you're coming from Al.

Don't know where everyone's gone mate? It's not like we're having great weather and everyone gone out to fix their 33's

[Oggie]

I'm here, and reading you post Al, I think lowering a car won't make a difference to the toe in toe out set up, all I'm aware is that you set the car up with slight toe in so when the car moves it will pretty much align the wheels at speed, I also think that to set the car up toe out will make the steering erratic and help cause tyre wear and road steer (lorry tyre ruts) especially when driving on the slow lane of the motorway. Al what make of tyres did you go for? were they soft Yokohama's?.
_________________
PHAT 33

[BigAl]

lee
maybe they have a block on my posts, as im posting a lot I'm making up for 8 months of not driving my 33

oggie
i have posted a reply and your post in the other of my many posts
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[paulhide]

I'm in Paris at the moment with my white 33.
(Noticed a slight flat spot and found a vacuum pipe off, now running nicely)
_________________
Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188

[BigAl]

Bon Joor mis yooor.
Your's is 8v and so that vacum pipe does the advance, where as on a 16v the advance is done by the ECU i believe.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[Admin]

Hi

While there must be a correct position, I think you have a fair amount of freedom either side before it causes a problem.

Think the Maseratis could have problems. Being an odd fire V6 but with evenly spaced contacts on the distributor cap you could quite easily land up with it trying to fire a neighbouring plug.

All the best

Keith
_________________
I owe, I owe, its off to work we go.
Bimota Forum
Stafford Christmas Lights

[bobbber]

Yes Al... ECU controlled only. I don't think it matters where the dizzy position is (within reason).

Bob
_________________
Fiat Bravo 165 Sport

[BigAl]

Just trying to find the best position so the spark has the least distance to travel and help with emissions, I will put the arm all the way to the right of the mark when at TDC as DaviiD suggests.
I have always had problems with emissions with this car and never checked the mechanical timing.
Out of interest where are other 16v owners dizzy caps, fancy posting some picture up?
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[BigAl]

I think the designers have taken this into consideration when making the reference mark, as the manual page 678/2576 "01 - 92" says.

[lee16v]

Mines more like this:





But it depends on how the oil pump is inserted on where the dizzy points at TDC

[BigAl]

I had this thought a while ago and was told, as long as the rotor arm is pointing to the reference mark and that HT lead goes to No. 1, all should be ok. I think that the oil pump should be pointing towards cylinder 1 like yours.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[lee16v]

Yeah it doesn't matter at all. I put it pointing that way for ease of putting the HT leads on. To change your position would be a pain in the arse so as long as your leads reach without stretching I'd be inclined to leave it Al.

[BigAl]

Sweet, when i was doing my oil pump i could have changed it aswell but i agree it is a PITA and didnt. I thought that mine was in the wrong position, as i was used to seeing 8v's, but after looking at several other 16v's they all seemed to be in the same place. My HT leads just fitted before i moved the distributor but now fit with ease.
So are we all agreed that wiper arm should be in the middle of the timing mark??
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[BigAl]

Thinking about it,

[lee16v]

Not sure Al,
Can't remember seeing a reference mark? I'll have to have a look.

[BigAl]

you had a look yet Lee???
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[DaviiD]

We always have ignition advance. Spark always occurs BEFORE piston reach TDC. You should set it up that way, that the rotor just passes timing mark when piston is in TDC.

If the rotor turns to the right, then left side of the rotor should be aligned with the timing mark.

[BigAl]

Hey DaviiD
What you say makes sence.
I put on a new rotor arm and dizzy cap, and you could see the arcing on the leading side of the dizzy cap points???? This was when it was set up like the 1st pic, retarded, I was waiting to use a timing gun and move it to both advance and then retard extremes until it miss fires and then put it in the middle and see where it falls. I cant clean off the marks so i will see if it makes any difference when being driven, I just havent got round to it might do it now
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[BigAl]

I did line up the rotor arm so that the left side of it is in line with the timing mark. As a test i tried with timing set to 95 ron "yellow timing relay" and with no "timing relay" 97 ron and there wasn't a huge difference between them like there was before.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[BigAl]

Started today on the second crank, compared to 5 - 7, but im not sure if the other coil had anyhting to do with that. I will try tomorrow with normal coil.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203