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AL33NUT

Hi Guys,

I'm thinking of getting some Borbet As for my 33 (series 3 with 16v bodykit). What do you guys think?

See http://alloywheels.borbet.co.uk/borbeta.php to see what the wheel looks like (I'm sure you know already)

Three questions:

1. Do you think they'll suit the car?
2. As they only come in 16" diameter will it be significantly detrimental for the ride quality and/or handling?
3. What else should I bear in mind when thinking of getting these wheels?

I currently run Konis matched to HR springs all round. I've also got poly bushes all round.

The plan is to have a deeper dish at the back to give it that wider look from the rear. Not sure how deep the dish can be at the rear though.

What do you think? Your thoughts will be much appreciated. Confused

bobbber · Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:22 am Post subject:

Speedo accuracy will be affected and acceleration will be slower (slightly).

It's got to be said... they are wickedly weird looking wheels! Kinda like them... kinda don't! Laughing

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Fiat Bravo 165 Sport

AL33NUT · Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:42 am Post subject:

bobbber · Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject:

No idea mate... although there are a few people on here who know about that kind of thing!

You might find the larger wheels make the speedo MORE accurate as it tends to be 10% under speed from the factory (although not very high tolerance in most cases).

B
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Fiat Bravo 165 Sport

Oggie · Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject:

Bobber's right, larger wheels normally cause speedo reading issue's although using 16" wheels has brought my speedo to exact indicated speed (using gps based unit to compare). On the style front I think they are cool, but you could only use the 7 inch wheel as the 9 inch would mean major rear arch modification (extension's). Could you not copy-resize and apply the wheel's to an uploaded image of you car?, I would like to see that!. Razz

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PHAT 33

JeremyC · Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:46 am Post subject:

IMO the 33 16v has a very good ride / handling compromise. Larger wheels with lower profile tyres will wreck this.

Despite what virtually every car / tyre manufacturer will tell you, low profile tyres are really only suitable for billiard table smooth racetracks not the UK's neglected third world roads.

What wheels do you have at the moment. Mine has the Speedlines with the holes and I think you'd struggle to beat those.
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

I have the same setup as you, powerflex bushes all round, superflex for the front anti-roll bar, Koni top adjustable shocks at the rear, standard at the front and Eibach springs all round.
My experience with 16" momo arrows compared to 15" tsw evo's were as follows.
16" when going into a corner hard and fast there was no tyre roll or body roll and the car would slide. On bumpy roads i would get bump steer and found myself trying to avoid holes. I also had another set of rare 16" off of a lancia thema turbo that cracked due to those stupid square sleeping policemen, i now go over them with the strongest part of the wheel, the outside, making contact with the policemen, also stops the sump/manifold from hitting anything.

15" better in the wet due to i guess a little trye roll and more fun, no bump steer, more feel.

14" even more fun, chuck it into any corner, tyre squeel everywhere, not as good handeling.

I would go for 15" everytime now on the road, for track 16".
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

AL33NUT · Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject:

frenchy · Alfa Arna Joined: 22 Jun 2009 Posts: 23

on my old s2 1.5ti i had a set of 15" with tyres sized to keep the rolling radius the same as before. i found the extra width (i went wider for a bigger contact patch) helped a lot with high speed corners and was still usable on B roads.

i then used these wheels on my perm4 after trying the standard wheels. in standard form i found there was almost too much tyre wall sag/roll. ok so you can feel under or oversteer coming from further off but you progressivly lose grip from the start of this process right up to the slide.

so i stuck the new wheels on and i found the slightly larger and wider (but lower profile... no low pro', just lower) was a really nice balance for an otherwise standard perm4.

later i tried some VERY light weight 16" enki (jap make) wheels with 3 dirrerent tyres. for all round use i used goodyear eagle f1's and these were amazing.. although they only lasted about 4000miles at the front. so much more grip and vastly improved cornering speeds. bumps were a bit of an issue but the extra grip was well worth it.
the lower level of progressive breakaway was more than manageable after a week of learning the break away point. a little lift off oversteer here and there to help correct the line is good fun anyway Very Happy

then i tried toyo r888 road legal slicks (17% tread). in the dry even the bumps didnt bother them as they stuck to where ever they touched the road.. however on a damp road they were useless and on wet roads they were just dangerous.. not really any good for daily use in england.

lastly i tried the bridgestone protensa (sp?)
i hated it!! not as good as the goodyear in the wet or dry, less able over the bumps and weirld it felt like it had sidewall roll on a low pro tyre but still with an unpredictable breakaway point.

after trying all them on the perm4 i stuck with the very light 16" wheels that made the steering effort less and the goodyear eagle f1 tyres. i coudlnt get a better setup.

i cant remember the offsets of the wheels but it wasnt quite standard. they were quite a lot wider than the standard wheels so this was needed to clear the front arches on the perm4.

when i get another perm 4 i will be going stright to goodyears again.. but i may not go too wide as this would not work as well on snow/ice that we get here in the mountains quite often.
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on the hunt for a perm 4

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

hey frenchy, the p4 is a completely different beast to drive compared to the standard 16v 2wd, the break away point will be different to a 16v, i have not had experience myself but Paul.H has had both.
Paul, u care to comment?
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

what about the original 5 spoke revo?
Now called Schmidt Revolution Modern Line

not on a 33 but a sud, to give you some idea of what they look like

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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

frenchy · Alfa Arna Joined: 22 Jun 2009 Posts: 23

i've got a feeling that the red p4 he had was my first one.. last time i saw it, it looked a lot better than when i gave it to some bloke for next to nothing so he could fix the hydraulic lifters that blew up on a long fast run and to rebuild the 4x4 after the coupling died due to some chav putting a switch on it before i had the car..

i've not had a 16v front wheel drive. the only 3 fwd alfa's i've had (in order of ownership) were:
arna 1.3 single carb
33 s2 1.5ti
another 33 s2 1.5ti (much later in my alfa life)

i only put better brakes on the first 2 as they were shocking.. and better wheels/tyres on my first s2. second s2 was standard 100%

your right though, they do handle differently. no torque steer in the p4.
infact i think the p4 comes in my top 5 handling cars.

elise 111s (s1)
nissan pulsar gtir (the reason i left alfas) with many handling mods.
nissan skyline gtr (r32) (lots of mods too)
honda integra type r (dc2)
and the 33 perm 4 with just non adjustable shocks, springs, wheels and tyres.

impressive little car, even more so in that company.

is the P4 that much beyond the S3 16v fwd?
apart from a lack of power on oversteer and less wheelspin, i cant see them being that different.. the fwd is lighter.
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on the hunt for a perm 4

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

I followed pat, who was in a P4 and he just left me in the corners, that was in my yellow veloce ser 2 beast with 16" Lancia Thema turbo wheels and everything else standard, even then the 33 is still a good little corner taker, but he left me non the less.
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

AL33NUT · Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject:

paulhide · Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject:

P4 is more stable on acceleration, but there is more weight, and specifically more weight at the back, so it has a slight tendency to oversteer more when thrown into a corner. Tyres/wheels are always a compromise between handling and comfort, though I agree that Goodyear Eagle F1s work really well. English roads are very bumpy, though. I had a mate who completely cracked up the subframe with too stiff a ride on his 16v. I did have a car with Camac tyres on 15"s not so long ago and that was hilariously dangerous, but then I used to love chucking my girlfriend's Fiesta about on skinny 135mm tyres as it was such a challenge to get much out of it.
My P4 did have a switch in it, but the engine and drivetrain was supposedly destroyed by a guy called Luke (also a Pulsar owner) putting it into 3rd instead of 5th at over a ton. It was a dog when I bought it, but all working nicely when I sold it.
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Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188

bobbber · Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject:

john 33_16v · Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject:

paulhide · Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:30 am Post subject:

Yep, same one and Luke's a great guy. Shame he didn't join us round Spa. I think he'd have enjoyed that.
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Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188

frenchy · Alfa Arna Joined: 22 Jun 2009 Posts: 23

thats me

when that p4 left me it had, had quit a hard life...

started as a bit of a dog when i got it as i didnt have a great deal of cash but wanted one none the less.
i started to mod it up by putting a chip in that seemed to help right at the top end of the revs but not much else. stuck an exhaust on it that i had built just for the car.. was a bit louder than i had planned but wow what an engine note. in hind sight, it lost me torque but it did aid revs and top end.
thrashed it day in day out for around a year and then (as said above) stuffed it into 3rd (trying to get a quick 5th) at the VERY top of the revs in 4th Sad

let this be a warning to you all.. fix your gear linkage bits so the box isnt sloppy!

less than a full second of that killed the box and engine. i worked out it revved to about 12k. one new rebuilt lump later and a second hand box it was back on the road.
but the 4wd wasnt working so the garage just took the prop out. boy did it torque stear after that!

a few months later at least one of the lifters died on the way back from Brighton to Reading and i only drove it about 5 miles again after that. i advertised it on alfa owner and some guy took it away for a few hundred quid as his winter project.

some years later i start to think about my old p4 and tracked it down to sussex and paul being the new owner. we met at the jack and jill pub for one of the alfa meets and there it was... my old perm 4 working as it should... still with the very loud exhaust on it Very Happy

i cant wait to get another one, i'm waiting to hear back about 2. no news yet.

and yes i would have enjoyed a blat round spa. i was at 'the ring' in may with an mr2 turbo (borrowed) and my mates exige. the 1.2 corsa isnt really up to the job
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on the hunt for a perm 4