Alfa Pages

[Brit01]

Intermittent ticking again last night.

Suspecting INA tappets bleed valves and possibly bores on limit of gap clearance!

Maybe a new box and new OE tappets are the only solution!
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Brit01]

Guy Croft is suspecting the small end bearing is out of whack and causing this ticking/clicking when hot.

A wrist pin knock has a very unique sound. And this sound will be different depending on how many of the wrist pins are making the noise. If all the wrist pins are loose, this will sound like an overwhelming rattling inside the engine.

This sound is described as a double knock, because it will cause a noise at the top of the piston travel and when the piston changes direction it will make another noise. This noise is most notable when the engine is idling and the engine is also hot.[/u]
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Brit01]

Plan:

4 gudgeon pins/circlips ordered
2 small end shell ordered (all original).
Plastigauge ordered to double check crank journals.

Just got 2 small end shells to buy still, probably from a good source in Argentina.

2nd Dec, stop car and remove parts and pistons at the weekend.
Take new pins/shells to workshop to be pressed and honed/reamed.

Then I've got 4 weeks holidays (summer time!) to finish reassembling the clicking alfa and fingers crossed all will work without any unnerving noises or clicking anymore.

Practice makes perfect.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Ian M]

Its a shame you are in South America Brit as you would be THE man to come to for boxer engine rebuilds, with your ever growing experience.
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Presntly own
Red Abarth 500c

[Brit01]

[ZeNiTh-PbArM]

Hi,

Let me ask just one question : if the noise is related to too much play in the small end bearings, how comes that the engine was quiet after reassembly, then started ticking again after a few days? It should have been there all the time.

Besides, the oil filter change might influence the noise. The pressure drop across the filter is slightly different when you take another brand or model. As a result, the oil pressure in the engine might change when the filter is replaced. The variation is minor and cannot be noticed with the standard dash gauge. Anyway, accurate pressure sensors can detect variations in oil pressure, especially at idle. Since oil pressure influences the behavior of the tappets, there might be a connexion between your filter change and the noise reappearing.

Regards,
zp

[Brit01]

[Brit01]

Wonderful

Just researching into Mann and fram filters and the trustworth garages that fitted my filters put the wrong ones on!!

I specifically asked for ones with anti-drain valves. yes yes of course you see these have. all of ours do sir!

Now they out a Mann W712/53 on and a Fram PH5548.
Both DO NOT have an anti-drain valve and also a bypass valve of 2.5 bar!!!


The ones I need are W712/16 or PH9732.
Anti-drain valve and bypass of 1 bar.

The current Coopers Fiamm I need to and check the serial number on it.

But for sure tomorrow I'm returning to the garage to ask for the Correct ones.

Good job my engine is clean due to the bypass valve and hope I haven;t done any damage at start up. In the last month of break in I have always started it up carefully. But still...not pleased. Luckily I found out now and not 5000 kms later


Never trust a mechanic as they say is so true and especially one who sells.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Brit01]

Appears that the whole country is out of oil filters with anti-drain valves

Have to be ebay and cross my fingers it arrives.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Brit01]

I'm not too convinced with the INA tappets. Very lightweight yes but I get a rattle on start up each time which goes away after 7-10secs.

Never had this on the OE tappets, even the broken ones!!!

Maybe the INA tappets do not have an anti-drain or are just not good on the flat 4 engine perhaps.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Brit01]

Well in 10 days I will be dropping the entire engine and gearbox to strip.
I have 4 weeks holiday over summer

Will be checking all bearings with plastigauge and thoroughly cleaning the whole crankcase.

I have new parts waiting:

main bearings
thrust washers
gudgeon pins
small ends

gaskets etc



Christmas come early
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Bobkelso]

Hi, it seams you'll do nice holidays!

Ps.: what are you using to move the motor from the car?
Full professional garage or crick and patience method?

And what type of head gasket are you going to use?
I'll have a spare motor with heads to do and I dont'know
if is better use original alfa heads gasket (hy quality
but old type construction and stocked for 15 years)
or non original Ebay ones (more modern type,
with red stripes on surface and only fey years old)??

Ps.2: some French people have done a radical modification
to mount the oil filter in vertical position and with thermal
exchange with the water circuit:

http://alfasei.canalblog.com/archives/2008/12/06/11644884.html#comments

http://alfasudsprint.canalblog.com/archives/technique__distribution/index.html

Maybe this modification is too much work for not racing car
but interesting, with that they use normal oil filter type.
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Alfa 33

[Brit01]

Thanks for the interest and links.

I'll be using the patience method, small jacks and axle stands. Dropping the engine/box on the sump in my driveway. Can be done in 1 day.

Regarding gaskets I've used several new ones with the red stripe on and had good results. 3 layer composite. cheap and no issues even with a hot engine in Uruguayan summer heat. Just make sure you retorque them after the first heat cycle to get a good seal.

Would love to have my own garage with a lift one day.

Will be updating the thread with my progress.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Brit01]

Big weekend is close. Starting late Friday night will begin on dropping my engine. Well Saturday dropping, Friday just doing a few little things.

First I want to see if I can loosen the drive shafts bolts without issues (without snapping any heads!).

Will remove the wheels and use the 6mm allen socket I purchased.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[john 33_16v]

Brit01,

Worth squirting some wd40/plusgas on the tops of the crossmember bolts (from above) and on the gearbox tail end mounting bolts in advance

Never had any trouble with the driveshaft bolts. but an allen key socket is worth it's weight in gold.

Good luck.

John
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If it aint broke, fiddle with it until it is!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
93 33 16v Mirtle Met
08 Fiat Grande Punto Exotica Red
90 Yamaha FZR600 Genesis- Silky white/red/blue

[Brit01]

[Brit01]

I had a tough weekend confronted by some complications trying to prepare the car to drop the engine.

First issue was the exhaust manifold and trailing pipes.
The rubber supports were extremely tricky to remove and the middle joint where the manifold joins the mid section would not pull apart.
The whole system would not pull out from the back or front due to the angles at the back.
So it will be tight squeeze but sliding the exhaust to the far left side will enable me to drop the engine.

Second issue was that one of the allen bolts that connects the drive shaft to the gear box was totally rounded inside. Obviously done by the previous owner/mechanic and just left in the bad state.

After some thinking and discussions I decided to cut the head of the bolt.
Once the head was off the remaining part of the bolt came out very easily by hand luckily.
I just need to source a new allen bolt with the same characteristics now.

Chris
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[RFlower]

[Brit01]

Thanks.

Yep tried the large vice grips. No luck there.

Only option was to cut the head off. Was a risk but paid off. Was a relief when the bolt unscrewed easily in my fingers.
The thread may have been damaged if it was overtorqued.

Maybe they just didn't seat the allen key properly or it was worn when previously tightened.

Got 5 days rest at work until I take it on again next weekend!!
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[john 33_16v]

Hi,

If the exhaust is off all it's mountings it should swing 'round enough to one side to drop the engine, but garage walls can get in the way.

My trick with the exhaust rubbers (removing and refitting exhaust) is to thread a large cable tie thru the rubber and make a cable tie loop big enough to get a gloved hand thru. You can then pull the cable tie 'handle' and stretch the rubber enough to slip over the steel hook. CopperGrease helps on refitting too.

Good Luck


John
_________________
If it aint broke, fiddle with it until it is!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
93 33 16v Mirtle Met
08 Fiat Grande Punto Exotica Red
90 Yamaha FZR600 Genesis- Silky white/red/blue

[Brit01]

[paulhide]

Yes always used to swing exhaust either side of blocks/axle stand. Did about 20 engine drops in a few years so perfected the method to the way I liked and could do it quite quickly, though everyone has their own ways of doing things.
Used to gently jack up the exhaust just a little with an old scissor jack (being careful not to damage the exhaust) to ease removal of the rubbers.
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Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188

[Brit01]

[Bobkelso]

Hi,
Simple and nice the idea to cut the allen bolt,
so after with no tension the remaining part of the bolt came out..
I assure you the idea was not so obvious:
when I give an old 33 16v to a mechanics to unmount
the motor and transmission he founded a similar problem
(some allen bolts ossidated that doesn't move) and
he used the fire of a flame to unlock them..
after that the rubber protection of the joint was gone ''

I post my method for unlock the exaust parts:

simply pulling it can be very hard to unmount
one piece from the other if the pipes are oxidated/
strong fitted one into the other, and using hammer
or others as mechanics sometimes do
will damage the shape of the pipes,
but in reality is very easy to unmount
all by hands with small force is you can:

- re-lock firmly the manifold exaust to the motor to keep it not to rotate
- (give out the rubber rings of the final part of the exaust)
- (unlock only the 'bolt' that keep final and center part togheter)
- force by hands to rotate on the axis of the pipes
the final part respect the center part, this way is easy
to slide one piece from the other, until it is unmounted;
(rotating and in mean time little pulling, repeating the
action the times it is needed);
- after the final is unmounted, you can unlock the 'bolt' between
central part and manifold and rotate the central respect
the manifold, unmounting also it with no trouble by hands;
- after the central is out, unlock the manifold from the motor..

I hope my english is enough to be understood ''
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Alfa 33

[Brit01]

thank Bobkelso.

Your English is fine and clear

Unfortunately my manifold is joined the cheap way. One overlapping the other, pushed in and cramped.

No bolts or gaskets.

Yes not a good idea to weld or place heat around the driveshafts due to the plastic/rubber parts!!!
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)