Alfa Pages

paulhide · Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:34 pm Post subject:

Cheers Lee. Will double check them all.
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

paulhide · Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:27 pm Post subject:

Attached just negative lead to battery and put live bulb wire across to earths on L-shaped attachment by starter motor. All fine, bulb lights up.
Disconnected wires from starter motor. When I put live to the main starter earth/-ve wire the bulb lights up momentarily and then fades out - should that be correct Question

- something is making a noise somewhere when I do that.

Other two wires by the main one do nothing, so maybe they work when ignition is on?
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paulhide · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:39 am Post subject:

In addition to the above, I have white wires going to -ve on the coil and one green/black wire going to +ve.
Is this correct Question

Don't think the starter motor wire/lead should be acting as above. Will check the lead this weekend.
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RFlower · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:45 am Post subject:

paulhide · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:08 pm Post subject:

Hi, yes a live bulb wire just as you are describing.
I've got 3 leads going onto a 13mm nut fixture on the starter (which I've been testing as earth)
and a smaller wire with a spade fitting which I assume is the live exciter wire.
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RFlower · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:17 pm Post subject:

paulhide · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject:

Err no. It goes to the -ve terminal on all my cars - if it is the same lead that also goes to the 13mm earthing nut on the bulkhead by the heater.

Maybe I'm not checking carefully enough. I will double check tomorrow.
Are you saying all the wires going to the starter are live? Which is the earth?
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eagle3 · Alfa 33 Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France

The starter is bolted to the engine(or should I say gearbox) and is as such earthed.
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RFlower · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:18 pm Post subject:

paulhide · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject:

Right, thanks.
As you can see, struggling with a short circuit in the system is hard work for me with my minimal electrical knowledge.

The starter works, just the petrol pump isn't working even though the relays and pump itself are fine and I am getting a spark so flywheel sensor is working, I think. If I hard wire the pump at the relay it works. Wondering whether it might be ECU related. ??
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eagle3 · Alfa 33 Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France

In principle the pump should pump fuel as long as the pressure sensor doesn't think the pressure's high enough.

So could be pressure sensor maybe?
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paulhide · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:54 pm Post subject:

Okay, fuel pressure sensor. Good idea. Is there one? Any ideas where it is?
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eagle3 · Alfa 33 Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France

Not familiar with the 16V but my french Revue Technique refers to a pressure regulator and a security cut-off which cuts power to the pump if the engine isn't running.

The pressure regulator keeps the pressure at 2.5 bar and diverts the excess back to the tank.

When you turn on ignition the pump should turn and then stop if you don't start the engine. As soon as you start the engine it should work as long as the engine turns.

So sorry there's no sensor just the security cut-off.
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paulhide · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:35 pm Post subject:

Rats that leaves me nowhere. Not sure what to check now.

There is a zeitrelais/timer relay - is that anything to do with the fuel pump Question

(and aside from that should the two white wires go to -ve on the coil, with black/green to +ve) Question

What would happen if these were the wrong way round Question

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Ian M · Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:53 am Post subject:

Hi Paul
I think I would be doing us all a favour if I took a little trip to billington and put a match to the bloody thing.
I am free this weekend Wink

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eagle3 · Alfa 33 Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France

As the engine fired up and then died and you can't hear the pump buzzing I would check the fuel pressure is stable at 2.5 bar after the regulator.

Could be the pressure regulator not doing its job or some electrical fault which causes the security cut-off to action when the engine's turning.

In theory the pump should buzz for a second or two when you turn the ignition on, then stop(the security cut-off), then start buzzing again as soon as you crank the engine.

ZP's Imola site has some good info on the fuel supply system. Although the injection system on the Imola is different the supply side looks similar. Sorry it's in french! http://alfaimola.free.fr/technique/carburant/index.html

Here shows you how to check fuel supply pressure http://alfaimola.free.fr/technique/carburant/pression/index.html
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LoneWolf33 · Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:37 am Post subject:

There is no electric fuel pressure sensor in the 33s. The priming is triggered by a simple timer within the ECU.
This timer responsible for the fuel cut-off when the flywheel stops turning over.
The timer is become reseted on every pulse, received from the flywheel sensor.
If no pulse received the timer expires (800 to 1000 msec predefined interval), the pump will stop.

Some 33 ECUs are not priming the fuel pump at all, including the Bosch Motronic MP3.1 (used on late 1.5IE and 1.7IE models),
and the Bosch Motronic ML4.1 (used on the 16V models). These ECUs will start the pump on the first pulse from the flywheel sensor.

paulhide · Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:17 am Post subject:

Thanks, that clarifies things somewhat. Should have time today.

Thanks, Ian, for your helpful idea. Although I have often felt the same way, I have no running car at the moment so I would like to get it going.
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john 33_16v · Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:34 am Post subject:

eagle3 · Alfa 33 Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France

Do you know how old the fuel pump is?
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paulhide · Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:26 pm Post subject:

Hi John, have replaced pump and ignition relays with spares (maybe they don't work either?!)
I put a wire across the pump relay terminals and with ignition on can now here the fuel pump working permanently.
Turn the key another click to start and now the engine turns but won't fire at all whereas it did before.
Changed ECU. No difference. Put old one back.
Checked one plug for spark -ok (Had previously checked compression and spark on all cylinders/plugs)
So changed the injectors and fuel regulator/pulse dampener from the old engine (which were all fairly new) and still won't fire.
When I turn the key, the indicator light flashes briefly on the dash. There is an old dead alarm. Could this have any bearing?

In theory unless belts have just moved, I've got compression, I've got spark and using a bridging wire I can hear fuel pump. Crying or Very sad

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Joelomint · Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:53 pm Post subject:

If the old alarm has an imobilizer, then certainly could be an aggravating factor

Ian M · Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject:

A more sensible reply now Heidi
I once helped a neighbour change everything on an Astra GTE or something similar,cant quite remember it was a long time ago, it was definitely injected tho.
Anyway we changed the fuel pump amongst other things as it wasnt working.
It turned out to be a blown line fuse in the imobiliser circuit that was causing it to not operate.
Replaced the fuse and away she went.
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