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gritsop · Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 5:26 pm Post subject: Distributor problems

Hi,

Last two weeks a problem has appeared in my Alfa.

I live and work in a relatively high altitude area where many times a month I finish my work a couple of hours before the sun rise (I work in casino). (low temps, humidity)

When I turn on the key and start the motor a sound like "chicken" comes from the distrubutor, moreover if i press the throttle the sound becomes like a "scream".I can even feel these sounds/vibrations if I touch the distributor cup!
I know that that it may sound funny but these are the words that I can associate with these sounds.

I must say that these sounds are metallic ones since I can hear that metal parts are in drag. When I do some hundrends of meters these sounds disappear, probably due to the fact that they obtain their temperature.

Conserning the "chicken" sound this is new - has happened 4-5 times within the last two weeks. But the scream has come and gone for few years which I initially thought to be the belt over the alternator or steering pump which i took the slack according to the manual but proved it was not.

I tried to dismantle the distrubutor (BOSCH electrical system) for checking but it will only come in pieces if I remove it from the engine, something that I dont want since I will lose the correct advance. I have a strobe gun so that I can be able to fix it again at 8' but the hole in the flywheel has many hoses (vacuum, oil vapors) and harnesses above that block the way , being impossible for my self to do such job.

The only thing I did was to remove the cap, the rotating thing and put some oil on the rotor so that it goes down and lubricate what is not lubricated.

Has anyone come to this problem? It is rather annoying & frustrating and is it a indication of the distributor saying to me "Hey I die away, save me !!!"?
Please gyus give me your opinion.

Thanx in adnvance.
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

BILL · Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:23 pm Post subject:

Hi GRITSOP,
could the sound be coming from the engine ?I mean from the valves ,when you are low in oil and start the engine after along period you can hear the valves knocking for a second and then after they get the oil presure high they stop knocking.
Or if the sound comes from the distributor maybe they come from the other end of the cup ,from were it takes move(ο αξονας μηπως ειναι φαγωμενος στην ακρη του; )*
Hope i helped.

*if it looks greek to you its becouse it is,sorry Embarassed

gritsop · Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:22 pm Post subject:

Hi

No the sound is not coming from the valves - actually the car runs everyday and the oil is in correct level.

In addtion what Bill wrote in greek is a question if the distributor shaft has slack on it base where it gets move from the flywheel gear.

One way or another i cannot guess if such thing occurs as I have to dismantle the distributor and then then correct advance becomes past ... for the reasons I mentioned in the previous post.

Anyway if someone else knows something then it would be very appreciated.

Thanx,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

Guest · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:19 pm Post subject:

Sounds like it may be the clutch thrust bearing

GaryUK · Guest

That's me writing above, have to sort out the password on my laptop.

All the eloquent, technically brilliant posts in the past few weeks by guest will be me Embarassed

gritsop · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:06 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Thanx for your reply but what has the clutch bearing to do with the igniton distributor? This bearing is outside the engine and the problem is located somewhere inside the distributor ...

Anyway thanx a lot
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

Serpent33 · Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:50 am Post subject:

GaryUK · Guest

Sticking valve?? Look for any scoring which may indicate grit or similar on the valve top bucket things.

Any loss of power?

Are you sure that the shim thickness' were correct have you measured the gaps after fitting?

Anything loose, lifters?

Maybe when tapping occours turn off engine take off rocker covers and check all stuff for play.

johnboy · Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:30 pm Post subject:

Oh another sign is it's damn quiet when cold started. Loudest when engine restarted during warm.

Hi serpent33,

I think i know what it mite be,when you took apart your engine,did you take off the back of the cam belt, or just bend it out of the way.as this is what i did when replacing a head,when the engine got hot,the back of the cam cover would exspand and rub on the pulley's and make a real bad noise.so i had to bend it into place.mite be it? Wink

regard's
john
_________________
WODA WE NEED? MORE POWER!!

Alfa gt jtdm blackline
1990 S2 16v veloce sleeping!
2002 ts gtv the wifes now
1997 seadoo gsx 800
1999 freestyle superjet

Serpent33 · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:11 am Post subject:

Thanks guys.
_________________
Each time I speed I say, "Dear lord, make me fast and accurate..."

Serpent33 · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:13 am Post subject:

Eddie W · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:39 am Post subject:

Hi
Sticking valves will usually spit through a carb or pop through the exhaust. These days you don't often lap valves but use a 3angle seat and 1/2 a degree interference between valve seat and head seat. Bluing and back bluing to check position.
Regards Eddie

alfistjen · Alfasud Joined: 30 Jul 2003 Posts: 59 Location: Belgium

Got exactly the same as you had, sometimes when cold and humid it's sqrueeks and screams, when warming up it stops. Also had it after long distance high rev highway racing. Indeed the rattling is to feel through the distributor cap. One day I came home from a 100 km trip and 100m before my home it did it again but without stopping. I even drove it like that to my garage. Seemed that the rotor-axle had worn in it's bearing which made the rotor hit the cap on the inside. Got a second hand one, everything solved. New on costs about 300€... Keep an eye on it, think I was lucky it brought me home (as allways Razz

)

Regards!

Paul D.

turkey · Guest

Hi Thanassis-

I had problems with my distributor and it turned out it was a slightly incorrect model distributor - it still fit into place but was scrapping out a big line around the inside of the cap where part of the distributor body (i.e :the counter weights under the rotor arm) were hitting the cap.

my distributor was actually a marelli not the bosch but perhaps it's worth looking closely inside the cap to see if there are any marks which indicate the distributor might be hitting the inside of the cap. Especially as you can feel the cap vibrating when it makes those noises.Mine didn't make any major sounds- just didn't rev very well but perhaps if the contact was worse it would be making sounds like you describe. if you haven't already tried it might be worth just trying a new cap as they would normally be relatively cheap or even a second hand rotor arm to eliminate those as possible causes?

Regards-
David

gritsop · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:41 pm Post subject:

Hi guys,

I just connected on to the internet and read your replies; thanx a lot.

I checked again the cap and it is free of scratches - it is free of dirt like a new one, i used sandpaper to clean the four contacts where the rotor arm "picks up the current", i pushed back and forth the rotor axle and i felt a little slack which I think is acceptable.
Finally I used WD40 to lubricate the parts under the pulse generator (stator) just over the counterweights according to the diagram of series1 BOSCH distributor.

The frustrating part of the story is that I cannot dismantle the distributor so that I see whats really going on under the timer. It is sealed to the axle with something like a blind rivet.
Also I dont want to remove the distributor so that i dont lose the correct advance.
So i only have a imaginary view of the distributor only from the diagram on the workshop manual...

Anyway, at about an hour I leave for work and I ll see if WD40 has done its job.

I ll see tomorow what extra can be done with it if it insists.I'll let you know.
Now another fact - tomorrow i 'll buy a new radiator... i saw leaks on the bottom ... (115€).

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

gritsop · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:24 pm Post subject:

Hi,

After some days of testing the presence of WD40 inside the distributor derived the following conclusion:

The sounds have not been eliminated BUT have been dramatically reduced as of their occurence compared with no WD40.

I dont know what is happening but I 'll probably replace it if I see that the sounds come back and become more and more.

About the radiator;I installed it with a new vent valve and with two hoses from the thermostat to the union of the heater which my dealer did not have when I replaced every other hose in June.
I used a Shell GlycoCool collant (mix with 50% distilled water) all around 7.5 lt. (yellow liquid)
Does anybody know if it is best to use mixed coolant (50%water 50%coolant) or ready to use coolant?

I have heard that the second one does not generate rust in the engine in contrary to the first one that does, as 50% water is present in the circuit.

Thanks in advance,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

Serpent33 · Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:41 am Post subject:

Search on the topic heating problems. Some guys discussed about it once. Collant raises boiling temp and pure water dissipates heat faster. You'll get diffferent opinions. I try to use as much water as possible and coolant to minimise rust.
_________________
Each time I speed I say, "Dear lord, make me fast and accurate..."