Alfa Pages

[Paul Lewis]

Hi all. I have not been on the discussion forum for some time as I have been busy relocating to Snowdonia, North Wales from Portsmouth in Hampshire. Myself and my girlfriend have settled well into our new life in the wilds of North Wales, but unfortunately for me (and my P4)disaster struck yesterday morning on my way to work in Betws-y-Coed when my P4 suddenly lost it's grip in the middle of a sharp corner and I ended up hitting a tree in a gap in a dry stone wall.The car has been wrecked and is a complete write-off. Obviously I am absolutely gutted as the P4 was my pride and joy and I'm sure many of you appreciate how you can become attached to your Alfa.

What I am really disappointed and upset about, apart from the fact I had spent a fortune on the car and it was immaculate, is the way it let go in the middle of the corner so drastically and that I couldn't stop it hitting the tree.
If any of you know the A5 between Pentrefoelas and Betws-y-Coed, you'll know that it's a narrow and twisty road with many sharp bends and close stone walls right at the edge. The place where I lost it in my P4 is known as the Padoc bends and is a well known accident black spot. What I'm thankful for is the strength of my Alfa which has prevented me from sustaining serious injury or even death! I have cuts and briuses and some whiplash, but apart from that I'm fine. My white P4 however is completely wrecked. Front drivers side caved in, gearbox pushed under car, d/s door mangled, roof bent etc, etc.
What concerns me however is the way it just 'let go' mid corner. The road was a bit damp after some early rain, but I know the road well and drive on it 5-6 days a week. I was following a Mk4 TDI Golf and slowed before the corner. The Golf sailed through the bend and I followed yet without warning the back end snapped out wide and I tried in vain to gain control. I got the car going back in a straight line at the end of the bend (roughly) and it suddently flipped into an opposite slide so that the front of the car was facing the wall and tree, then bang, I hit the tree and the car bounced around a full 180 degrees. I have driven many Alfas (for over 12 yrs)and have been really impressed by the grip and handling of my P4. I just don't know what happened. Has anyone had a similar experience. As you can imagine, I'm absolutely gutted. Luckily I have fully comp insurance..but they will probably offer an insulting amount for what was a 'mint' car. Is it possible I could buy the wreckage off the insurance company?? Would it be worth my while to break it?? The engine was good, mint interior, new tyres, mint alloys etc.
Also does anyone have a really nice 33 for sale?? Cheers ( a very miserable Paul)
_________________
Currently own a late 33 16 Valve (M reg) in Silver, with P4 alloys and superspint back box.
I live out in the sticks with not an Alfa specialist for miles around!!

[bw]

Really sorry to hear that. Bad enough to write your car off, but even worse that it's your pride and joy, you must be pretty gutted

Afraid I can't offer any advice really, it's just that my girlfriend has just bought a P4, so if anyone could shed light on this I would be interested to know also for safety reasons.

Did you let off the gas when you felt the car starting to go, or keep it under power?

[ChrisC]

Those corners can be nasty. i know the road you mean. Think I may have seen your car up there on my travels actually. Condolences.
_________________
Alfa Sprint QV - Gone to a better home and in happier health for it
Silver Lancia Beta HPE Volumex - under restoration

[alferr]

paul sorry to hear about your accident,

sounds like there could have been some tyre problems during the cornering, one of your tyres could have gone flat!

ciao
_________________
-=alferr=-
goto #alfa33_net on DALnet

[ak8635]

sorry to hear Paul..

tyres could be a problem.. (or perhaphs anything on the road surface).
had similar problem and it was due to bad tyres and very slippery road surface..
_________________
A112

[tvatavuk]

Hi Paul,
I'm very sorry to hear that P4 has died, but I'm happy that you're all rihgt.
In my life I had 3-4 times similar experiences with my P4.
First of all it is problem with all 4x4 cars, you either have grip or on or not, almost digitally, margin where you are loosing grip is very very narrow especially on wet, so either you slip foot aside or are lunched out of corner like rocket, could be difference of one pine needle on road.
Fwd car starts to under steer and point where you lost totally grip is far far away.
Secondly because of viscous coupling, ours 33 get hit at the back almost instantly when front wheels slippage occurs, this most of time is great (entry or exit of corner), but sometimes is last thing we need, but unfortunately still do get (mid corner) .
Luckily for me all 3-4 times were on city road with a lot of tracks, and at funny speeds, 30-40km/h.
When that happens, there is almost absolutely nothing you can do, because it is same thing as rwd car got throttle in middle of corner. Rear of car translates it's back because of sudden wheel slippage, and then as it gets grip and it starts to rotate you even more.
Thirdly, our P4 as any car will lose its rear easily if you take foot of throttle, touch brake, lowered gear while cornering.

So when that happens you either press brake as hard as you can and hope that road is wide enough for rotation, or you rotate steering in opposite direction while pressing throttle to the end with little touch of brake pedal/emergency brake, or at least little depressing of throttle to help correct trajectory while counter steering. Of course if you entered corner with to high gear (too little rpm) you can't power steer, so only thing you can do is brake. In any case you need wide road, but with latter you can minimize damage or even escape it or you can maximize it if you're not quick enough.

Tino
still on foot
_________________
Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

[Admin]

Hi

Ouch. Glad you are OK. It could easily be something such as diesel on the road, and you just happened to take a slightly different line around the corner.

If you do break the car for spares you shouldn't have a problem. However I would think carefully before claiming if it is just for the car. At best they will give you £1000, which when you take into account the excess and lost claims might well cost you more than not claiming

All the best

Keith

[Gary UK]

Keith has a good point.

But if you do claim opt to keep the write off. As if the boot pan has survived intact you could get hold of a decent 33 shell and just cut out the boot pan(basically the p4 bodywork that differs from a standard 33) and weld this to the doner shell. As long as you cut out and weld along the actual panel joins it will be as good as new if not stronger as it will be seam as opposed to spot welded.

Or if you want to swap the front bulk head and VIN plate over to the doner chassis as well then the car will be a standard p4 as opposed to a modified car which may cost more to insure.

With a bit of effort you could end up with a mint P4 (proper stripped down spray job - engine bay, inside door surrounds, boot etc. Proper rust protection). Even if you can't weld you can do alot of the cutting and preperation.

Doner shell £100-250 (includes trailoring if necessary and hiring grinder)
Welding £50-200 (depending on how much you did yourself)
Paint £40-100 (depending on 1 or 2 pack and quality)
Spray £30-400 (depending on how much prep you did yourself, £30 bottom end is for hiring equipment)
Engine & box swap £15 - 200 (again could be free, £15 for hoist hire, if you do all the work)
Sundries £100+

So bottom end project costs £4-500.

[Scott Sander]

What's a P4 worth these days in the UK?
_________________
Scott Sander
'91 Alfa 33 Boxer 16V Monza - Awesome
http://www.sanderfamily.com

[Gary UK]

1993 Permenant 4
Dealer Retail - £1560
Private Good - £1260
Private Poor - £210
Trade - £410