Alfa Pages

JeremyC · Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:50 pm Post subject: Cylinder not firing

I'm not having much luck with the Alfa at the moment. We had to be bought back from Kent by the RAC this afternoon.

The car started misfiring, intially just a slight one most noticeable at tickover. However as we worked our way through a fairly clogged up Maidstone it got worse and worse and once we reached out destination I knew an 80 mile trip back would be difficult so I called the RAC.

The patrol man was, as ever, excellent and with the old HT lead removal trick he soon identified that it was the left rear cylinder. Next he was going to swap plugs on that side (you can see what's coming) to see if the problem stayed with the cylinder or followed the plug but he (as I have in the past) could just see no way to get to the plugs.

Now it may be the car will have to go over to Adie at AHM but that's about 25 miles away and I really don't want to drive that far with unburnt fuel washing the lubrication off one of the bores.

So two things:

How the hell do I get those plugs out?

Can I disconect the lead from the injector and stop it injecting fuel that won't get burnt.

One last point, I think it was worse with the HT lead completely disconnected, I guess there is the chance that the cylinder is firing just not very well.

Cheers

Jeremy
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

Admin · Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject:

Hi

You "need" the tool that came in the boot of a 16V. Basically a plug spanner with a hex shaped extension onto which a ratchet spanner fits (makes it sound high quality - it isn't!).

All the best

Keith
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JeremyC · Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:45 pm Post subject:

Hmmm, don't think I have one of those, do you get the ratchet spanner too or just the plug bit?

Anyone got one spare?
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

john 33_16v · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:52 am Post subject:

Hi,
If you can get hold of the box spanner (alex may have one??) you can work it with a (14/15mm??) ring spanner, the ratchet tool just speeds things up.

You possibly could run it with that injector disconnected- unburnt fuel not good for the cat either.

With the plug out worth doing a compression test, although screwing in the hose won't be easy i'm afraid.

Hopefully plug/lead issue, if not then you could probably swap an injector over to test that, failing that compression test (low) could be burnt valve- which i've had.

John
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If it aint broke, fiddle with it until it is!
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93 33 16v Mirtle Met
08 Fiat Grande Punto Exotica Red
90 Yamaha FZR600 Genesis- Silky white/red/blue

JeremyC · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:21 am Post subject:

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. I'm very busy at the moment so I might just drive it over to Adie on three cylinders.
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

JeremyC · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:07 am Post subject:

Are the plug wells very narrow or can I get a 3/8 drive plug socket down there?
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

john 33_16v · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:19 am Post subject:

JeremyC · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject:

Good news: I have the ratchet and the box spanner (and an attachment for the wheel nuts too)

Bad news: Box spanner end doesn't quite fit in the ratchet though it probably would with a little filing.

Good news: My 9/16 AF ratchet ring spanner does fit perfectly over the end of the box spanner.

Bad news: It's not quite so long, let's hope they are not in too tight.

Just about to have dinner then go and attack them!
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

JeremyC · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject:

And out in about 15 minutes:

I'm going to clean it up with a little electric plug cleaner I have (sand blasts them) and then pop it back in. Bet it takes me more than fifteen to get it back in!
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

JeremyC · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:27 pm Post subject: a

You guys are chatty today!

Ok, back in and not quite as tricky as I feared, is that the hardest one?

The bad news is that it hasn't fixed the problem. Symptoms are:

1) Rough running though I think the fuel is burning in that cylinder as there is no smell of unburn fuel at the exhaust.

2) A very noisy exhaust, like there is a hole in the pipe but I don't believe there is and headers look fine.

3) Diminished power but it's not too bad and it gets better higher up in the rev range.

My bet, particularly bearing in mind (2) is a damaged exhaust valve. I'll call Adie in the morning and arrange to take it over there.
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

john 33_16v · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject:

It does unfortunately sound a bit similar to my burnt valve symptoms from back in 2001.

Mine ran like shite for a while then got really bad following a long trip. With the head off one exhaust valve had literally lost a least a third of its face.

John
_________________
If it aint broke, fiddle with it until it is!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
93 33 16v Mirtle Met
08 Fiat Grande Punto Exotica Red
90 Yamaha FZR600 Genesis- Silky white/red/blue

paulhide · Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:24 am Post subject:

I take it that the plug is sparking fine.
Yeah, let us know how you get on.
Regards.
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Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188

JeremyC · Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:59 am Post subject:

Yes, turned the engine over with the plug sitting on the block and it sparekd nicely.

I've spoken to Adie this morning and he can take the car next week.

However bearing in mind I'm looking at £500 to £1000 for body work in the next few months to deal with the front scuttle and potentially a similar amount to Adie then I have to think about this with my sensible head on.

The Alfa is our 'sensible' car and I might be better off cutting my losses and just buying another car (33 or otherwise). Then I think, better the devil you know and I do enjoy driving the Alfa.
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

johnboy · Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:04 pm Post subject:

Admin · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:52 pm Post subject:

Hi

Before you go too mad try swapping the injectors around and see if the non firing cylinder moves.

All the best

Keith
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I owe, I owe, its off to work we go.
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lee16v · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:50 am Post subject:

JeremyC · Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject:

Car now with AHM, I drove it the 25 miles over there and once if got above 3k or so it was running better which again points at exhaust valve problems.
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

JeremyC · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject:

Good news!

Just heard from Adie and it was a duff HT lead and a wire pulled off the injector, now of course one or other of those might have happened while the RAC man was groping around.

While he's got it Adie is going to do cam belts and he think his supplier can no longer get tensioners. Does anyone know a source?
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

john 33_16v · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Good news hopefully. Did he do a compressionn test? I guess if it runs sweet with a new ht lead all should be good.

I think you can still get the gates kit of belts and tensioners for about a tonne.

Last did mine 2009 and got dayco belts from camskill.co.uk and skf tensioner wheels through a good factor who got them from Belgium i think!

John
_________________
If it aint broke, fiddle with it until it is!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
93 33 16v Mirtle Met
08 Fiat Grande Punto Exotica Red
90 Yamaha FZR600 Genesis- Silky white/red/blue

eagle3 · Alfa 33 Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France

Cambelt kits still readily available in France http://www.oscaro.com/kit-de-distribution-alfa-romeo-33-907-307-276-1698-gt
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Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994

JeremyC · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:06 pm Post subject:

This story is continued in this thread:

http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=33046
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v