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56-9252 K&N filters

 
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BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
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Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: 56-9252 K&N filters Reply with quote

Here is my first mock up of my 56-9252 K&N filters
Modifications;
Drill two 41 - 42m holes in the base plate 100mm apart, centre to centre.
Remove the two uprights from the end of the oval and drill two more holes closer towards the filter, diagonally opposed, top plate and base plate, this will allow space to fit the trumpets. Do not do them the same on both sides, you need to mirror them so they become sided so the nut underneath clears the throttle linkage.
Drill two more holes in the centre to hold the other end of the trumpets (not done yet), by coincidence the original upright holes are in the exact place for the trumpets.




You will need some

40mm high 40mm ID 46mm OD
The trumpets I would like to fit are these,
Keeping them the same height as what’s on there at 13cm from the butterfly to the top of the trumpet gives me 45mm to the top of the filter.

Two problems;
The fuel rail pipe will be pressing onto the filter, if I put it under the rad pipe it will be pressing into that. Can the angle of the fuel pipe rail be changed?
Are different oil dipsticks available for the 16v that are angled differently? The current one ends in the air filter, can they be bent without flattening?



I assume that the best place to put the air temp sensor is in the base plate of the filter, is there any preference as to which side I fit it, does one side of the engine run hotter ect?
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Bobkelso
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi BigAl,
really nice, you'll have nice apparence,
air filtrations, and more space free in the bonnet
respect normal 16v aspiration,
maybe air aspired will be a little hotter than normal
system but It will be relevant only here in Italy
where temperatures are higher Very Happy

Ps: I see your motor is with ignection, not carbured,
what do you use instead of the air-flow meter?
I cannot see nothing like it in the photos?
Hare you using an air pressure+temperature sensor instead?
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Bobkelso,
Thanks Smile
I have a Kevlar bonnet to go on, loads of air will come in from the front I imagine Smile
I have an omex 500 ecu which uses throttle position and rpm, Alpha N kind of setup.
There is an air temp sensor but I think it's just for ambient temp for start-up ect, as it's not measuring air pressure Smile
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Bobkelso
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, now I get it Very Happy rpm + trottle sensor do the job
of the common air-volum sensor + trottle sensor;

Not sure (?) but so air sensor is probably used in usual way,
it is not only for air temperature at start-up but always during the run,
it helps to calculate air density, in that case may be it will be better
fit the sensor inside one of the air filter but not in direct contact
with metal base, or air temperature reading will be influenced
by motor temperature, may be better 1-2 cm higher than the
metal base and on insulating support??
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

when I get the car re-mapped I will ask the mappers Smile
best place will probably be near the trumpet intake Smile
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RFlower
Alfa 33


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
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Location: S of France

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi. According to the information on fuel injection under "Alfa 33 Info" at the top of the page :-

For the 16 valve models a Bosch ML4.1 system was used. This multi point fuel injection system used an air flow meter and individual throttle bodies (made by Dellorto),

Is your car different, not having an air flow meter?
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi RFlower,
yes, I am not using the standard ML4.1 system, it has been replaced with an after market Omex 500 ECU.
This has to be used with the cams I have and is quite tunable Smile

I now have a decat pipe and will have a go at sorting the emissions with a laptop and a wide band lambda sensor Smile
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RFlower
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'm sure you'll get it all to work properly Very Happy

I'm afraid I don't quite get what the trumpets do, hidden inside the K&N filter - I thought their main value was visual Very Happy Very Happy
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eventually Smile
The length of tube from the butterflies in the throttle bodies denotes where the torque curve is. The longer they are, the lower down the torque is & vice versa.
When my engine was mapped, different length trumpets were used to find the best compromise.
I am keeping the same distance from the butterflies Smile
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Oggie
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think it's the other way round Al, the longer the trumpets the higher up the rev range the torque will appear, shorter gives a lot better throttle response but decreases the over all top speed, called the Venturi effect.
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Oggie
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the K and N filters will kill the effect because of the closed top.
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bad, bit tired when I posted that Smile
Dude, there is 40mm gap Smile
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Oggie
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ideally they are supposed to be open to the air with no filtration in place, here's an extreme example using 4 different length's to equal out the torque.

http://automotives.tumblr.com/post/457149478/70s-can-am-uop-shadow-road-atlanta-via-picasa

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/65330-injector-funnels/page-2

http://blog.boomergarage.com/2009/04/12/canam-racing-in-the-late-60s.aspx

Some extreme example of a banned era of racing because they were faster than formula 1 and often raced over 220mph..............these drivers would call Jackie Stewart and his raving on about no safety a wuss.
Shocked
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a coincidence, as I was reading this the other day
http://www.emeraldm3d.com/articles/emr-adj-length-intake.html
To buy anyone ?? Smile
http://www.emeraldm3d.com/throttle-body-kits/emerald-adjustable-length-intake.html
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone?
know where to get some stubs and about eliptical flared trumpets??
I got a different dipstick btw Smile
what about the fuel rail??
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just took delivery of these bad boys


now to get some nuts and bolts and get the 60mm trumpets milled down to 40mm Sad such a waste.
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

60mm trumpets now 40mm stubs

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BigAl
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So does anyone know what to do about the fuel rail?
I put it under the water pipe but it presses on it too much
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All done

















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lee16v
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice job Al.

Good bit of engineering on the accelerator cable mount. There must be a bridge somewhere near you with a bit missing now. Laughing
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Bobkelso
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi BigAl, visually is a masterpiece..
Boxer with separate filters don't know if are faster than with original air box
but with free space above the motor are wonderfull to see and easy to work around..

Uhm..so shiny..now you risk to be be tempted to repaint
the other motor parts like on Brit01 motor..addictive motors..
One time I spent many hours Shocked polishing the alternator
case during a revision of it to get it shiny like a mirror
(the effect last 3 years, after started to re-oxidate a bit, may be next time I just paint it)
..my woman joking at me said: "but that part it isn't in the bonnet? where you will not see it? " Smile

Ps.: in the photo I see a yellow metal sensor, is for block water or air temperature?
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol Lee, that was made by Alex's mate who originally built the engine, he must have had these filters in mind, as it just fits Smile

Thanks Bobkelso, there is a thread on alfa owner where a guy did a back to back comparison on the rolling road with trumpets and the original plenum chamber. The plenum chamber was better low down but restrictive at top end.
Yeah it reminds me of my 8v, so nice and easy to work on.
I do have a spare alternator and was going to polish it up, but not done it, might have to now lol.

I'm still not liking the fuel pipe pressing on the air filter, the fuel pressure regulator just hanging and the oil breather venting to air, as it makes a mess, I think I will get a catch tank.

Is the sensor the one with holes in it, if so, it is the air temp sensor.
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to add some pics showing the complete image Smile






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33bits
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking pretty Al, lots of shiny bits are always good. Smile. After all this work can you notice the difference when driving? Does it perform better? (I know it sounds good from the other day), but how much better does it go?
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Alex,
I wasn’t expecting any performance increase, if anything I thought there might be some restriction as the original trumpets are wider at the top and the bottom ID is larger. Now it is the same all the way to the head. I am sure this smoothes the airflow.
There is a little more induction noise as the pulses reverb off the top of the metal plate of the filter, it so reminds me of my 8v with K&N’s Smile
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