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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:31 pm Post subject: 56-9252 K&N filters |
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Here is my first mock up of my 56-9252 K&N filters
Modifications;
Drill two 41 - 42m holes in the base plate 100mm apart, centre to centre.
Remove the two uprights from the end of the oval and drill two more holes closer towards the filter, diagonally opposed, top plate and base plate, this will allow space to fit the trumpets. Do not do them the same on both sides, you need to mirror them so they become sided so the nut underneath clears the throttle linkage.
Drill two more holes in the centre to hold the other end of the trumpets (not done yet), by coincidence the original upright holes are in the exact place for the trumpets.
You will need some
40mm high 40mm ID 46mm OD
The trumpets I would like to fit are these,
Keeping them the same height as what’s on there at 13cm from the butterfly to the top of the trumpet gives me 45mm to the top of the filter.
Two problems;
The fuel rail pipe will be pressing onto the filter, if I put it under the rad pipe it will be pressing into that. Can the angle of the fuel pipe rail be changed?
Are different oil dipsticks available for the 16v that are angled differently? The current one ends in the air filter, can they be bent without flattening?
I assume that the best place to put the air temp sensor is in the base plate of the filter, is there any preference as to which side I fit it, does one side of the engine run hotter ect? |
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Bobkelso Alfa Sprint
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 190 Location: Milan - Italy
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Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi BigAl,
really nice, you'll have nice apparence,
air filtrations, and more space free in the bonnet
respect normal 16v aspiration,
maybe air aspired will be a little hotter than normal
system but It will be relevant only here in Italy
where temperatures are higher
Ps: I see your motor is with ignection, not carbured,
what do you use instead of the air-flow meter?
I cannot see nothing like it in the photos?
Hare you using an air pressure+temperature sensor instead? _________________ Alfa 33 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Bobkelso,
Thanks
I have a Kevlar bonnet to go on, loads of air will come in from the front I imagine
I have an omex 500 ecu which uses throttle position and rpm, Alpha N kind of setup.
There is an air temp sensor but I think it's just for ambient temp for start-up ect, as it's not measuring air pressure _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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Bobkelso Alfa Sprint
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 190 Location: Milan - Italy
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, now I get it rpm + trottle sensor do the job
of the common air-volum sensor + trottle sensor;
Not sure (?) but so air sensor is probably used in usual way,
it is not only for air temperature at start-up but always during the run,
it helps to calculate air density, in that case may be it will be better
fit the sensor inside one of the air filter but not in direct contact
with metal base, or air temperature reading will be influenced
by motor temperature, may be better 1-2 cm higher than the
metal base and on insulating support?? _________________ Alfa 33 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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RFlower Alfa 33
Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 432 Location: S of France
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Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Hi. According to the information on fuel injection under "Alfa 33 Info" at the top of the page :-
For the 16 valve models a Bosch ML4.1 system was used. This multi point fuel injection system used an air flow meter and individual throttle bodies (made by Dellorto),
Is your car different, not having an air flow meter? _________________ Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F) |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Hi RFlower,
yes, I am not using the standard ML4.1 system, it has been replaced with an after market Omex 500 ECU.
This has to be used with the cams I have and is quite tunable
I now have a decat pipe and will have a go at sorting the emissions with a laptop and a wide band lambda sensor _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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RFlower Alfa 33
Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 432 Location: S of France
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:38 am Post subject: |
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OK, I'm sure you'll get it all to work properly
I'm afraid I don't quite get what the trumpets do, hidden inside the K&N filter - I thought their main value was visual _________________ Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F) |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:49 am Post subject: |
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eventually
The length of tube from the butterflies in the throttle bodies denotes where the torque curve is. The longer they are, the lower down the torque is & vice versa.
When my engine was mapped, different length trumpets were used to find the best compromise.
I am keeping the same distance from the butterflies _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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Oggie Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 811 Location: Whitehill
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Think it's the other way round Al, the longer the trumpets the higher up the rev range the torque will appear, shorter gives a lot better throttle response but decreases the over all top speed, called the Venturi effect. _________________ PHAT 33 |
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Oggie Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 811 Location: Whitehill
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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the K and N filters will kill the effect because of the closed top. _________________ PHAT 33 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Oggie Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 811 Location: Whitehill
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Anyone?
know where to get some stubs and about eliptical flared trumpets??
I got a different dipstick btw
what about the fuel rail?? _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Just took delivery of these bad boys
now to get some nuts and bolts and get the 60mm trumpets milled down to 40mm such a waste. _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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So does anyone know what to do about the fuel rail?
I put it under the water pipe but it presses on it too much _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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lee16v 16 Valve
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 1429 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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Nice job Al.
Good bit of engineering on the accelerator cable mount. There must be a bridge somewhere near you with a bit missing now. |
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Bobkelso Alfa Sprint
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 190 Location: Milan - Italy
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Hi BigAl, visually is a masterpiece..
Boxer with separate filters don't know if are faster than with original air box
but with free space above the motor are wonderfull to see and easy to work around..
Uhm..so shiny..now you risk to be be tempted to repaint
the other motor parts like on Brit01 motor..addictive motors..
One time I spent many hours polishing the alternator
case during a revision of it to get it shiny like a mirror
(the effect last 3 years, after started to re-oxidate a bit, may be next time I just paint it)
..my woman joking at me said: "but that part it isn't in the bonnet? where you will not see it? "
Ps.: in the photo I see a yellow metal sensor, is for block water or air temperature? _________________ Alfa 33 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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lol Lee, that was made by Alex's mate who originally built the engine, he must have had these filters in mind, as it just fits
Thanks Bobkelso, there is a thread on alfa owner where a guy did a back to back comparison on the rolling road with trumpets and the original plenum chamber. The plenum chamber was better low down but restrictive at top end.
Yeah it reminds me of my 8v, so nice and easy to work on.
I do have a spare alternator and was going to polish it up, but not done it, might have to now lol.
I'm still not liking the fuel pipe pressing on the air filter, the fuel pressure regulator just hanging and the oil breather venting to air, as it makes a mess, I think I will get a catch tank.
Is the sensor the one with holes in it, if so, it is the air temp sensor. _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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33bits 16 Valve
Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 1067 Location: Clevedon. North Somerset
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Looking pretty Al, lots of shiny bits are always good. . After all this work can you notice the difference when driving? Does it perform better? (I know it sounds good from the other day), but how much better does it go? _________________ 155 sportpack
33 16v Sportwagon
33 Permanent 4
33 16v (for sale)
156 JTS sportwagon
contact me for any 33 parts. Alex, 07896-327708
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:55 am Post subject: |
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Hey Alex,
I wasn’t expecting any performance increase, if anything I thought there might be some restriction as the original trumpets are wider at the top and the bottom ID is larger. Now it is the same all the way to the head. I am sure this smoothes the airflow.
There is a little more induction noise as the pulses reverb off the top of the metal plate of the filter, it so reminds me of my 8v with K&N’s _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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