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help, 33 not starting

 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:20 am    Post subject: help, 33 not starting Reply with quote

My 33 died about a month ago when a friend drove it (but I never got a proper description of what went wrong). Battery was completely flat and nothing working. I charged up the battery about a week ago and managed to start it, after considerable pumping of accelerator etc. I left it running for about 10 mins, standing still (it wasn't registered at the time so i didn't drive it anywhere) I went to start it again this week (now it is registered) and it just wont start. I can hear the starter motor working hard, and occasionally the engine nearly catches on, but only for a second or two. I've given it more fuel (it was really low) and nearly flattened the battery twice trying to start it. I don't know much about cars (own the alfa because it is a pleasure to drive, despite being a headache to maintain) I have checked the ends of each of the spark plugs, but that is about it. Any suggestions on what I could check? Please describe/explain stuff - I'm a girl so I need things fairly basic, but I'm game to have a go at fixing it.
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Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ben, thanks for your reply.
um, first a few answers...

- yes the car has carbs, it's an '85 model.

- I'm in tasmania, Australia

- ends of the spark plugs do look ok bar one - i thought i'd found the problem as it looked a bit sooty on the end and the bit on the distributor cap it plugged into looked a bit corroded compared with the others. But i took it up to the local garage and they tested it with a battery and a volt-meter thing and said it was fine. Could there be a problem with the distributor cap? All I know about it is what I've read on www.howstuffworks.com !

- I was pretty careful with the order, taking them off one at a time and replacing them before i took the next one off so i'm pretty sure i haven't mixed them up.

- I looked inside the air intake cover, pulled off a bit that looked like flyscreen and another rubber grille thing and everything looked fine so like you say, air is probably not the problem

- the fuel pump has been quite noisy for the last 6 months or so and i was worried that it was on it's way out. You can't hear it when the motor is going, but when the key is turned and all the electrics are on you can hear it from inside the car. I'm pretty sure it's the fuel pump, it's underneath, right at the back near the left back wheel, it has two hoses and an electrical wire. Thing is, since the car died it still sounds the same as when it was working.

- i haven't had any parts replaced in the motor recently, last thing and went was the clutch about 4 months ago. I'm a student and haven't been able to afford to get it serviced for a while, although I did get it tuned about 6 months ago. I'm actaully intending to sell it (as much as i love it) but the bloody thing keeps breaking on me just as i'm about to get rid of it!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, and i forgot to introduce myself - my name is bron Embarassed
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paulhide
P4


Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 1607
Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't know carb models had a petrol pump at the back!? Anyway if you want to know if fuel is getting to the carbs undo a fuel line near the carbs and get someone to hold the line away from the engine into a jamjar or something. Start the car and see if anything comes out.
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Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know they had a fuel pump at the back either.. just the mechanical fuel pump on the motor itself, near the oil filler tube. Nothing electric that should make a noise at the back of the car.. Only the pump for the rear window washer is back there, and that shouldn't go unless you press the rear wiper button in.

You could try paulhide's test, but since your fuel pump should be a mechanical one driven off the engine (as far as I know), it won't pump fuel except when the starter motor is turning the engine over.

If the distributor cap terminals are corroded, it might be old enough to be worn (the metal posts on the inside of the distributor cap get eaten away eventually by the sparking). Likewise the end of the distributor rotor arm could be worn.
I don't suppose you have a voltmeter thingy or a digital camera? Wink
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Eddie W
Alfa 33


Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 375
Location: new zealand

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bron. Obviuosly your 33 is attached to you and doesn't want to leave. Who can blame it, a young lady who has the style to appreciate a 33 AND is capable of delving into its mysteries is a treasure that we in the fraternity can't afford to lose either.
Carbed 33s have a mechanical fuel pump located on the passenger side of the engine close to where the gearbox bolts to the engine. If yours does have an electric pump it must be an add on. You will hear a ticking from an electric pump when you turn the key on. If the ticking is rapid and stays that way it is sucking air. It should slow down as it backs up pressure behind the needle valves. Rapid ticking can also indicate a stuck needle valve which would lead to gross flooding which is dangerous! This would be visible with the air cleaner off by looking down the carb throats.
With the standard mechanical set up there is usually an inline fuel filter and these can become blocked over time and restrict fuel flow. Replacement is cheap but be aware that they are directional as to flow with an arrow marked on them.
As Ben has said you need air, fuel and spark. Air we can assume, fuel by disconecting the supply hose from the pump and holding over a can or jar and turning the motor over, spark by removing a plug, reconnecting the lead and holding against a clean metal area of the block and turning the motor over. You should see a spark jump across the electrode gap. Wrap a rag around your hand so you don't cop any HT current, you wouldn't like it.
From the above it will be obvious that you are going to need another pair of hands to help.
Don't believe your garage, any corrosion means resistance and is detrimental to current. Best cleaner I've come across is nail polish remover.
When checking for the fuel, remove one of the thin wires between the coil and distributor so you don't have any stray sparks to ignite vapour.
If you have both fuel and spark then we can probably assume either too much or too little fuel. The 33s seem to either drain back or vapourise fuel out of the floatbowl when they are left sitting for any length of time. Starting then requires some furios pumping off the pedal to get them to fire. However if you overdo it you can wet the plugs by flooding . If this occurs then you ease the pedal VERY GENTLY tothe floor so that the throttle is wide open and back off as soon as it fires. NO PUMPING. It is better also to remove the plugs and dry them.
There are some excellent engine start sprays on the market which are squirted down the carb throats and this could help. Don't overdo it
Hope this helps. Feel free to ask more questions.
Regards Eddie
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Ian M
Green Cloverleaf


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 911
Location: Bath Somerset

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My series2 doesnt like to start if shes been left standing for more than a week but is fine if started every day.
To get her going I bring anopther car in and use the jump leads as the battery just needs that extra bit of umph to fire it up (too tight to buy a new one).
As your battery was flattened and had to be recharged this might be the problem....
As its not been run much lately it might just need firing up and giving a good run
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, thanks guys. sounds like i've got some work to do. i'll have a go at it over the weekend and see what I can do. My flatmate has got a digital camera so if I get really stuck I can always post some photos and questions.
thanks very much... I'll give it all a try
Bron.
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BILL
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 154
Location: TRIPOLIS GREECE

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have alarm installed in your car its a good idea to be in off position with its key.They sometimes make problems .
Just an idea.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe it - it just works! Before I posted on here I had flattened the battery twice trying to start it, on 2 seperate days and I tried it on saturday and got it started first time. It was very spluttery so I filled it up some more and took it for a long drive and it has been fine since. Anyay, I've printed out your suggestions for future reference, just in case it dies again. The only thing that I can think of that was different was that it was a slightly warmer day (ie, the first two times it was about 5-8 degrees ish, whereas on saturday it was about 13 here in tassie... maybe that was it, or maybe my car is just temperamental!) on second thought, it's an alfa - tempremental is a given not a maybe!

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks heaps. I am very grateful for all your advice, even if I didn't have to do anything in the end.

cheers,
Bron.
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BILL
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 154
Location: TRIPOLIS GREECE

PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALFA ROMEO !!!They have a mind of their own!!!
Anyway i am glad your 33 is working without any effort from your side.
Happy driving Very Happy Very Happy

Maybe you should charge your battery with a special charger.If the battery is older than 6 years you should buy a new one.
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