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P4 problems from Holland

 
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ALFAQV16V
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:48 pm    Post subject: P4 problems from Holland Reply with quote

Hi ,

first let me introduce myself my name is Dave and living in NL
I own a 33 1.7 sw , 33 S 16V P4 ,145 1.6 Boxer and a tuned up 155 .
The P4 i just bought last week after i searched for i for about 6 years .
Today i replaced the sparkplugs , oil , oil filter , tyres and place a SQuadra chip.
And the car is driving fanastic , but..... when i'm driving 130/140 Kph and remove my foot of the gas , it is making a lot of noise it sound like something is ? slipping and when i put my foot back on the gas it's like the sound of a worn clutch from the back .
Sorry for my bad English , it's difficult to write technical stuff, hope someone her can help me .

Regards Dave ARTC 172
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ALFAQV16V
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry just forgot something when i'm braking and slowing down . i suddenly feel a little push from under the car .
And the car is driving wel
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tvatavuk
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Location: Split, Croatia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave,

when you turn steering wheel to the full lock (fully to one side) while parking/unparking car or while you're driving in tight corner, do you feel bumping,knocking or some other loud noise (except engine or tires Wink ) or is it just slight ticking noise?.

If there wasn't sound of worn clutch from back, I would assume it is gearbox rubber mount, but origin of that sound puzzels me.

I suggest to you to go under car and check up prop shaft and it's rubber mounts. If there are new scratches (polished metal) on prop shaft then you know what is probably making slipping noise.
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Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="tvatavuk"]Hi Dave,

when you turn steering wheel to the full lock (fully to one side) while parking/unparking car or while you're driving in tight corner, do you feel bumping,knocking or some other loud noise (

Hi tino ,

thanks for the quick reply , yes when i turn the wheel to right when i park i hear a bumping knocking sound .No problem when i turn to the left .
I checked the big rubber mount under the car and it wasn't worn .
Do i have to check other rubbers to ?
When it happens when i drive 130 and i am putting my foot to the gas , it seems it is slipping in the back .When i brake to around 70/80kph i feel a knock and it is ok.
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tvatavuk
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In perfect case scenario when shocks/spings are equaly worn you should have same amount of on boths full locks, only on one side suggests that your prop shaft mounts are not in center(failed visco mount on chasis?), or engine isn't.
You should check all 3 main rubber mounts, there shouldn't be cracks in it, or at least not deep ones.
1 is on end under gearbox, 2 other are holding viscous coupling (looks like 20cm long maybe 10 in diameter round black weight/pipe in middle of car.

While under there take a good look at prop shaft (long black pipe that goes form rear differential/wheels to front gearbox/wheels)
It has to be total black, there can be little scatches on it but only with rust, if there is polished metal/silver ring on pipe it is place where prop shaft is touching something.
Usualy main place to look for is first propshaft which rubbs of gear knob lever support.

If you could take digital pictures of prop shaft and mounts and post them I may tell you more.

Also you can try and disengage 4x4, take out 30A? fuse, on relay under bonnet on left hand drive car it is gray relay with blue/purple stand, it is in front of driver between brake fluid tank and left shock absorber top mount.
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Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo
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ALFAQV
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thaks for your support ,today i changed the fluids of the gearbox and differential , i did not put in grease in the axel yet.
When i inspected the bottom i could not see any fresh scratches .
When i went for a drive today , it happens again (try to describe it more preciously).
It does not happen straight away , it takes for about 10 km and when i drive in the city there is no problem <70km/h .
But when i go any faster hell brakes lose in the rear .
I think it happens when i stop putting my foot to the gaspedal (upcoming trafffic) then i hear a horrible sound , from i think the gearbox en more to the rear Axle .
It doesn't help giving more gas or less , the sound stay's but when i change from 5 back to 3 and step on the gas it slowely goes away , but i have to keep stepping on the gas or the sound is coming back.
Then i leave the highway and when i am slowing down my Right rear wheel start's bouncing/knocking until i come to a stop
giving gas again , and it start's bouncing again .
I stopped at the gasstation for about 5 minutes , drove away and nothing is wrong .
When i went for a verry fast acceleration until i reach 180 nothing happened .
But when i'm cruising shit happens again.
Sorry for the long story but Alfa Romeo Dealers in Holland don't understand the P4 and on tje forum's here also.
Thank you verry much for youre help try to shoot a few pics. tomorrow
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Dave ARTC 172
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ALFAQV
Alfa Arna


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Location: Enschede NL

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi tino ,

thanks for the quick reply , yes when i turn the wheel to right when i park i hear a bumping knocking sound .No problem when i turn to the left .

Sorry

this had to be the "WHEN I TURN TO THE LEFT MY REARRIGHT WHEEL STARTS BUMPING"
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Dave ARTC 172
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tvatavuk
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok.
You should grease up rear axel evry 20k km, I think.
What exact brand/name (and API/SAE label?) oil did you change, in gearbox and rear differential?
What wheel/tire size do you have on P4? (You must have all 4 same tires, and they should be worn even if possible)
After you drive it take a look if any of rear wheels is hot, or hooter then the other one, if one is hottetr then other one it could be sticking brake callipers, it is one of P4s known issues.
Also try disengagging 4x4 (so yellow 4x4 warrning lamp is on), and see what happens.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="tvatavuk"]Ok.
What exact brand/name (and API/SAE label?) oil did you change, in gearbox and rear differential?
What wheel/tire size do you have on P4? (You must have all 4 same tires, and they should be worn even if possible)

I bought Penzoil 80w90 front and rear ,
and for the tires No they aren't the same front 195-50-15 rear 205-50-15

theoraticly .. when the fronttires spin for 100 km/h the rear wil do 98,29 km/h ..
This is a difference of 9.42 turn per km and yes i thought of it , on a fwd it doesn't matter ......but on a 4wd?
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Dave ARTC 172
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tvatavuk
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should change them ASAP.

P4 MUST have all tires of same size, and preferably same brand/model because diferent models differ in dimensions. 195/50/R15 from one brand isn't same dimensions as 195/50/15 from other.

P4 has no real centrall diff, visco coupling that is between front and rear axels, is responsable for transfering from 5% to 50% of torque to the back diff.
Front and rear diff have same ratios, so front and rear axels rotate at the same speed, and at that moment viscous coupling between those two transfers 5% usualy from front to rear. Once one of those starts rotating at different speeds, viscous liquid inside coupling hardens, when it is hardened/heated enough it will act as solid axel/shaft.
Since there is no real central differential at that point it is war of the strongest, and rear wheels are (by factory design) supposed to skip small portions of ground. With bigger rear wheels you are making it hard for car to skip/slip parts of road it needs and all that power that builds up on all of 4x4 transmission parts from engine to rear tire.

About oil
It is important that oil is API GL-5. That Penzoil you bought is it semi-sint or is it mineral oil?
I have put Castrol TAF-X 75w90, it is fully sint oil, it costs like all other beter full sint oils, but you can feel big difference to mineral one.
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ALFAQV
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the oil is API GL-5 ,have to look in garage if it is full or semi .
And for the tires i will chang asap ,

thanks for your input
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Dave ARTC 172
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tvatavuk
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem.
Please don't change them to all 205/50 all over, 195/50/R15 is wide enough for 33 to look nice.
Which tires are you curently runing on brand/model?
I have all over 195/50/R15 Toyo Proxes T1S- nice summer performance tire.

Tino
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Matt Stolton
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Alternatively... Reply with quote

I'm runing Yokohama A539 195/45/R15, also a very good trye size, as you slightly lessen the loading on your gearbox, slightly better acceleration, if a little lower MPG.

Just an idea...
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Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!
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ALFAQV
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've gor pirrelli behind p 6000 in the front don't know ,On my 155 i got Eagle F1 205-40-17
On my 145 i got toyo proxes and i am verry happy with these .
And on my SW i got michelin
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Dave ARTC 172
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