Alfa Pages

[andrew]

I have a 91 16 vavle and it's done 150 000 ks on the original suspension so it's feeling a little tired. I'm just after suggestions of what to change while it's out. So far the list is struts, strut bearings and strut boots. Is there anything else that should be changed while it's all apart? Also do you think this type of work is easy to do for the home mechanic? I managed to change the belts and tensioners before without bending anything and have changed numerous 33 and Sud engines so I'm fairly familiar with the car.

[paulhide]

If you're changing to decent secondhand parts simply take the whole spring/strut assembly away from the wheel (4 17mm bolts) top bush (4 13mm nuts) and at the end of the steering rack (a clip securing lock plate and 24mm bolt - remove intake sensor box 3 10mm nuts and put on full lock to access) and replace whole assembly with a decent one. (most mechanics would undo the ball joint from the steering arm onto the shock, but this can be a real pain) Altogether real easy, though lining up the bottom of the strut may require some pressure (lowering it onto a couple of bricks while the wheel is off to compress the spring or fiddle about with spring compressors if you must) and you may probably need a tracking check afterwards, but then not a bad thing to do anyway. Just did this on my P4 and it took 40 mins. to do both struts.
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Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188

[gritsop]

Hi,

Also replace the inner "compact rubber" part whose role is to prevent the shock absorber hitting on the chassis. It is located inside the outer rubber boot.

Usually the drivers side is more probable to go bad.

Mine had been broken halfway, so the replacement was shocks, outer rubber boot, inner compact rubber part and beaings.

Regards,
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Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[Ken McCarthy]

Andrew

Change the front springs to stiffer ratings. I went through a process with my Sprint when I put the 16V drive unit in. Because the 16V springs had sagged, I swapped my Sprint (Series 1 33) springs onto the struts. When the shock absorbers failed, I put in Koni Yellow Sport units in the front, and later in the rear. The ride didn't get worse because the Boge struts in the 16V are very stiff.

Then I started swapping springs around. I put the 16V front and rear springs in and found the rear too stiff. The fronts were too soft causing a lot of pitching and very poor turn-in, even with the Konis, so I went back to my original front springs and had them reset a bit lower (about 15mm ride height so the camber didn't go too far out). I also reset the rears down 25mm which is as far as you can go without them coming free at full extension. Note the 16V rears cannot be lowered this much as they are stiffer and the free length is shorter. People like Eibach use progressive rate to get lower and stiffer.

The end result is that ride is close to original, good turn in is back and handling is dramatically better. With the bigger wheels and Pirelli P6000 tyres, confidence in both wet and dry is way up.

Anyone with a 16V should think seriously about changing the front springs. The rears have to carry more weight on occasion in the hatch than my Sprint but it might be worth going back to the Series 2 for these. Alfa went progressively softer at the front and stiffer at the rear springs from Series 1 to Series 3 and I don't think this was the right move.

Get a set of spring clamps. They don't cost much. If you are in Brisbane, give me a call and borrow mine.

All the best
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Ken McCarthy - 16V Sprint

[munro]

Ken,

A naive question: what does the term "turn in" as in "poor turn-in" mean?

Munro.

[Ken McCarthy]

Munro

It has to do with the balance of the car and the amount of understeer/oversteer but also includes issues such as roll and damping (shock absorbers). If the car responds quickly and directly to steering inputs (think of a go cart) then it exhibits good or sharp turn-in. If you take this too far you get oversteer. With the softer front springs I was getting a very "dull" reaction to steering inputs. Bigger wheels with lower profile tyres (stiff sidewalls) also sharpen steering reactions.

The Sud/33/Sprint has a tendency towards oversteer (unusual in a front wheel drive car) or at least a good balance with minimal understeer so good turn-in should be a normal characteristic of the car and is one of the things that make the car fun to drive.

This is my two cents worth, others might have more to add or even disagree. Hope this helps.

Regards
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Ken McCarthy - 16V Sprint

[tvatavuk]

Hi Ken,
I don't know about Sud and Sprint, But 33 is in fact 99% of time in understeer. It is just built that way.
That 1% left is for big and fast oversteers that happen due to various reasons (sudden change/loss of traction). Braking mid corner, bump, patch or hole. And most of the time they happen in middle of understeer.
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Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

[Matt Stolton]

With the eibach springs all round on my P4, and the rocking horse dropping eibach front anti roll bar, I now have gentle, slight oversteer going into a corner, changing to neutral 4 wheel drive 4 wheel slide, if you push it too hard.

Once you start to slide at hard locks (hairpins), you can foot steer quite dramatically. By planting the accelerator to the floor or lifting off, you can induce a far bit of over or under steer as desired. This is as much about spinning wheels, as weight redistribution, as the front lifts on acceleration still, digging in the rears. As you tend to straighten the front wheels, the foot steering drops off, and it stops sliding sideways and goes forward. It also seems to sit very square on the road, with little roll, unless you really push very hard.

I have, for the moment, kept the standard shocks, although Yellow Konis are ever beckoning......The only problem I really had at Dreamracer's track day, was locking the fronts under braking, in the wet, but I think that was more user error, than poor car, and it was generally only on one corner, which I struggled with ever time.....

However, in P2 mode understeer rears it ugly face, and the car looses a lot of its stabilty, and the squareness of how it sits on the road. I think the engine torque going through the rear axle, stiffens the rear of the car in some way. This, coupled with the extra grip and drive of 4x4, makes a huge difference.
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Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!

[andrew]

Thanks for all the advice. I think I have to make a decision on how long I'm going to keep the car. If it's staying in the family a while I'll get some good suspension otherwise I'll stick to what needs changing.